Lessons for geezers?

[swarfrat]

I assume most folks here have been playing for awhile. Like at least a decade. Maybe three. (I just reached that recently). i like to think I'm halfway decent, but looking to take my playing up a level. I've been really frustrated in the past with lessons. Its not that fundamentals aren't important.  But I can find that stuff on my own.  Actually a lot of what I'd like to work on is just getting from decent to rock solid, getting a heck of a lot faster at transcribing (whole songs, not just guitar parts-  for a couple reasons, including building repertoire, and taking songs apart)  What do you even look for in a teacher, and how do you quickly figure out a teachers teaching ability, and weed out the guys who just have an "advanced guitarist" lesson plan?  Heck, do I even need a teacher for those kinda goals?

 

[stratamania]

Start by making a list of what you want to be able to do.

What's holding you back from doing it ?

Make another list...

Isolate those things and work on them.

Sounds like some of those fundamentals you might have not found so far. Often they are more important than they may appear.

Do you need a teacher ?

Are you self disciplined and self didactic ?

 

[zebra]

Interesting post, I've been thinking about this too.  There's a lot of stuff you can learn that doesn't really take you in the direction you might want to go.  Sometimes the desire to learn as much as possible can become a diversion, because learning indiscriminately can lead to the most relevant or useful knowledge for a particular musician's needs not being as highly prioritized as it should be.   

I've been thinking lately that I don't need a teacher for lessons, so much as something along the lines of musical mentorship.  For that, I'm going to have to seek out musicians in the area who I've seen perform live, and not necessarily guitarists.   

Getting back to your post, here are a few thoughts:  1) You might not need a guitarist; 2) Jazz folks really know their music theory, esp. with regards to harmony and improvisation, whereas 3) Classical folks know theory as well, but skewed more towards composition and counterpoint.  4) If someone can perform (either in the sense of play or compose), they might not be able to teach well, but at least you'll know that they're not "the guys who just have an "advanced guitarist" lesson plan."  However, 5) Some people can do things very well, but are terrible at explaining them.  That's why Bob Ross is awesome.  Whether you like his painting or not, he's great at teaching-by-communicating-his-experience. 

Something else to think about: What you referred to as "goals" is a blend knowledge and skill (know-how).  The "know" part can be taught/learned.  The "how" part, the application of the knowledge - that comes with practice.  At some point, and with some goals, the best a teacher can do is point a student in the right direction.  I don't know anything about transcribing, but as you suggested, that might be the case here. 

 

[swarfrat]

Yeah, the idea that I might be looking for something other than "guitar lessons" did occur to me. I might just need a band.

 

[Cagey]

A band is a helluva driver. Last one I was in forced me to learn all sorts of stuff I never would have approached on my own.

Sometimes a suitable one can be tough to find, though. Most bands want somebody immediately productive because working pays better than learning, experimenting and practicing. Of course, you need to do all those things, but that can be very time-consuming and the jobs/family us geezers have often interfere with that. I suspect that's why most bands you see are either very young, a business unto themselves or products of a bygone era.

 

[Wizard of Wailing]

    Earlier this year I was thinking about taking lessons for the first time.  Then I did something that helped me immediately get better.  I shut off the computer and/or TV to practice.  When I started seriously playing in 1990 I had no TV in my bedroom and of course, no internet.  I got good quick.  I find myself improving a lot this summer because of that.  Plus, I just ordered a new build last night so hopefully I can stop thinking about my next build for a while and actually concentrate on practice.

 

[Cagey]

That's a good point. Distractions are murder on the learning curve.

 

[Kublai]

    Plus, I just ordered a new build last night so hopefully I can stop thinking about my next build for a while and actually concentrate on practice.

Yea, if I spent half as much time playing as I spent fantasy building Warmoths, I'd be a good player.

 

[musicispeace]

Excellent topic here. I agree that what may be most beneficial may not be sitting down with another guitar player but another type of musician if you are fairly far along in general. When I took up playing again about 4 years ago after a LONG time of not doing it I tried a couple of local guitar teachers. I quickly figured out they had their own little version of a gravy train that amounted to having a spoonful by spoonful long term lesson plan where I was given things in a pricey 30 minute lesson that were highly mismatched to what I was doing at home. Things like working on reading tabliture for some old childrens' rhyme while I sat at home trying to figure out and play along with ZZ Top's Tres Hombres album. One had nothing to say about picking but a lot to say about reliving his past band glories.

So beware any music teacher that isn't addressing your specific questions as a starting point. It reflects a supreme case of them not listening to what you are trying to accomplish and viewing you as a walking dollar sign. Reminded me of what I am not buying into at this point about the guitar guy sub culture.

I have to confess I am still considering some coaching for my picking but may end up doing it via Skype or something with someone who's teaching style I like. This takes me to saying I have been getting a lot from youtube but that does not address things in a one on one manner. I totally support getting coaching as an adult player but I think it is crucial to hold people to what you are there about. if they are good at sharing and teaching they will have an ability to add to that in directions you could find beneficial and that you can have some faith in.

 

[swarfrat]

One thing a band does - unless you're Captain Beefheart, is force you to deal with the considerations of others. That alone can be a powerful driver. (At least in some fashion, even the most dictatorial bandleaders still have to keep the folks happy enough to play.)  I'm not sure I'd find a lot of other musicians interesting in writing brand new 80's style rock.  I do have some ideas that could work well in a church context, but I'm not ready to uproot my family just so I can play music.

I do however like the idea of a band of folks with real world priorities who want to learn a couple songs a month, play out a couple times a year, and have fun, sharpen their skills, build friendships, and make good music. (And won't be ruined by one member's aspirations of making it big.  Them odds are plenty slim - and even if we did have a #1 song.... or even two. Can you eat on that in your 90's?? )

 

[Cagey]

Not if all you do is sell disks or get radio play. Gotta perform live to make money, and that gets increasingly tough to do as you age.

 

[zebra]

I do however like the idea of a band of folks with real world priorities who want to learn a couple songs a month, play out a couple times a year, and have fun, sharpen their skills, build friendships, and make good music. (And won't be ruined by one member's aspirations of making it big.  Them odds are plenty slim - and even if we did have a #1 song.... or even two. Can you eat on that in your 90's?? )

I've been thinking this myself lately.  A band for the purpose of musical collaboration and exploration - no pressures or expectations, just a commitment to a musical relationship.

 

[TBurst Std]

I do however like the idea of a band of folks with real world priorities who want to learn a couple songs a month, play out a couple times a year, and have fun, sharpen their skills, build friendships, and make good music. (And won't be ruined by one member's aspirations of making it big.  Them odds are plenty slim - and even if we did have a #1 song.... or even two. Can you eat on that in your 90's?? )

I've been thinking this myself lately.  A band for the purpose of musical collaboration and exploration - no pressures or expectations, just a commitment to a musical relationship.

That's a great thing if you can find it. I was lucky enough a few times. It really helped us all grow as musicians.

 

[swarfrat]

The other wise use of lesson funds might just be to install a split zone AC system in the practice room (bonus room). Just not into the Red Hot Chillipeppers thing. Wheww its hot as blazes in there.

 

[DustyCat]

Some folks champion a more linear approach to learning. E.g. I must learn music like how I learned the alphabet, and then I will be able to play like_____. (gross exaggeration)

Some folks have found a more spherical, or RAM way of learning and accumulating knowledge and skillsets.

I'm still in the process of discovering this "spherical" way of learning and accumulating knowledge and skillsets and probably will for the rest of my life.  :binkybaby:

So no, I can't help you.  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[swarfrat]

One thing I HAVE been doing for a while is playing a lot of two note voiced "chord melody". I started doing this as an exercise when I switched to P-4 tuning (straight fourths, no half step shift and the 2nd string).  It's been productive, but I still haven't gotten completely back to where I was before (though some aspects are greatly improved). So one think I've started lately is singing to what I'm playing.  I'd also like to be able to move this from "Chord Melody" to "Rhythm Guitar in Motion" or "Rhythm Guitar Noodling"

 

[musicispeace]

Great discussion, I'm absorbing a lot here. Agree regarding finding some folks to just play music with and try to play out a bit over the course of a year. Don't underestimate the connection of live music with a small audience, especially if this is a newish or rare experience for them.  :bass:

 

[ChristopherG]

I started doing this as an exercise when I switched to P-4 tuning (straight fourths, no half step shift and the 2nd string)

This is how I tune my seven string since I very very seldom make "big chords" on it.

I think the best thing I have done in recent times for my guitar playing--or at least my ear--was to take up the lap steel. Having to really, really listen to every note I was playing has made me a much more focused soloist, always asking myself "Is that really the best note right there?" If you see what I mean.

 

[swarfrat]

That's actually part of what I'm trying to accomplish - complete integration of my P4 switch back into normal playing.  I like the direction its taken me, but I'd like to be able to use it more across the board in a supportive role.

 

[DustyCat]

...I switched to P-4 tuning (straight fourths, no half step shift and the 2nd string).

So that would give you from low to high
E A D G C F???  :icon_scratch: