Korina Wenge Pau Ferro Baritone 7

[2ManyShoes]

Never played a plain string that big, but I hate bending a wound 3rd.  The extra string was only 60 cents, and I'll have the wound 3rd that comes with the D'Addario set, I might as well give it a whirl.  Was the plain 24 you played on a bari?

 

[bvdrummer]

It was a 26.5" ESP/LTD 6 string, I was tuning it to B standard - so that 3rd string would have been D, a 4th below the normal G.

Have you done any tension calculations? If not I can do it for you pretty quick if you tell me your tuning.

The only potential issue is that usually a wound string feels lighter than a plain string of the same gauge. So a 26p will be a lot tighter and stiffer than a 26w, where a 22p or 24p would feel closer to the 26w.

All that being said, everyone has different preferences and playing styles and you may be fine. This is my first baritone and I was surprised that the strings feel as light as they do.

Isn't it fun to try different string gauges?  :doh: I always go through juststrings.com too, and I wish their shipping was cheaper! They have the best selection of anyone I've seen though.

 

[djf67]

I also have a wenge baritone 7 neck but with a bloodwood fretboard. And I made my own Jem/Universe body from flame maple (back) and rosewood (top). It was in the WIP section at some point.
I have 14P,18P,28W,38W,48W,58W,68W with Gotoh tuners and also had to buy 12. I am slowly selling off singles on ebay...
I'm tuned F#,B,E,A,D,F#,B at the moment  :evil4:
...but that's perhaps too low.

 

[2ManyShoes]

It was a 26.5" ESP/LTD 6 string, I was tuning it to B standard - so that 3rd string would have been D, a 4th below the normal G.

Have you done any tension calculations? If not I can do it for you pretty quick if you tell me your tuning.

The only potential issue is that usually a wound string feels lighter than a plain string of the same gauge. So a 26p will be a lot tighter and stiffer than a 26w, where a 22p or 24p would feel closer to the 26w.

All that being said, everyone has different preferences and playing styles and you may be fine. This is my first baritone and I was surprised that the strings feel as light as they do.

Isn't it fun to try different string gauges?  :doh: I always go through juststrings.com too, and I wish their shipping was cheaper! They have the best selection of anyone I've seen though.

Sure, I'd be interested in knowing the tensions.  I'll be tuning (most of the time)  to either: 

F# [or drop E], B, E, A, D, F#, B, or

E [or drop D], A, D, G, C, E, A.

Hence the giant strings.

 

[bvdrummer]

I also have a wenge baritone 7 neck but with a bloodwood fretboard. And I made my own Jem/Universe body from flame maple (back) and rosewood (top). It was in the WIP section at some point.
I have 14P,18P,28W,38W,48W,58W,68W with Gotoh tuners and also had to buy 12. I am slowly selling off singles on ebay...
I'm tuned F#,B,E,A,D,F#,B at the moment  :evil4:
...but that's perhaps too low.

Cool, what pickups are you using? Do you have any pics?

 

[bvdrummer]

Sure, I'd be interested in knowing the tensions.  I'll be tuning (most of the time)  to either: 

F# [or drop E], B, E, A, D, F#, B, or

E [or drop D], A, D, G, C, E, A.

Hence the giant strings.

Drop D??? that is low.

OK first the tensions of the standard pack:

80  E  = 17.0 lbs (if drop E)
80  F# = 21.4 (if F# standard)
68  B  = 27.6
56  E  = 33.3
44  A  = 36.7
26  D  = 22.8
18p F# = 21.0
14p B  = 22.6
Total = 185.4 lbs standard or 181.0 for drop E (yikes I hope the neck can handle this)

80  D  = 13.5 lbs (if drop)
80  E  = 17.0 (if standard)
68  A  = 21.9
56  D  = 26.5
44  G  = 29.1
26  C  = 18.1
18p E  = 16.6
14p A  = 17.9
Total = 147.2 lbs standard or 143.7 drop D (the total on my guitar right now is about 135 and it seems fine)

It seems like the 4th and 5th strings in that pack are thicker than they need to be, but baritone string packs are always balanced oddly.

OK, now for the plain string replacement for the 3rd string:

If the target note is D, you have:
26p = 27.6 lbs
24p = 23.5 lbs
22p = 19.7 lbs
20p = 16.3 lbs

And for C:
26p = 21.9 lbs
24p = 18.6 lbs
22p = 15.7 lbs
20p = 12.9 lbs

Now, I've done quite a bit of experimenting over the last year trying to get all my guitars to have the same feel when they are different scale lengths and tuned to different keys. And a couple things I've learned are:

1) Take these numbers with a grain of salt because the "tension" is only in the direction that the strings are pulling on the neck. The feel of the strings when playing & bending is due to their "stiffness" and this is related to tension, but also to string gauge and whether it is plain or wound. So a 10p 26p 26w and 80w would all have a very different feel even if they had the same tension. Larger strings feel stiffer than smaller ones, but plain strings feel stiffer than wound ones. I haven't done the math on this though because it's much more complicated than the math for the tension. So I use these numbers as a rough guide and go by feel from there.

2) Sometimes you have to compromise to optimize feel and sound. You might like the feel of one gauge but you like the sound of another gauge. Thick strings sound fuller, bassier, and they have more sustain. I prefer a little lighter low end strings because they get a little more djent.

 

[djf67]

Cool, what pickups are you using? Do you have any pics?

Pickups are SD Blackouts. I think it's fair to say the jury's still out...

Neck thread here -
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=14984.0

Body/guitar thread here -
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=15549

 

[2ManyShoes]

Wow, that's a beautiful fingerboard.  Those are the same pickups I have waiting for mine--SD Blackouts (the  Phase II active ones).  Are yours active or passive?  I'd be curious to hear more about your impressions.  I've heard a lot of raves about those as 7-string pickups for "extreme low playing."

 

[2ManyShoes]

Sure, I'd be interested in knowing the tensions.  I'll be tuning (most of the time)  to either: 

F# [or drop E], B, E, A, D, F#, B, or

E [or drop D], A, D, G, C, E, A.

Hence the giant strings.

Drop D??? that is low.

OK first the tensions of the standard pack:

80  E  = 17.0 lbs (if drop E)
80  F# = 21.4 (if F# standard)
68  B  = 27.6
56  E  = 33.3
44  A  = 36.7
26  D  = 22.8
18p F# = 21.0
14p B  = 22.6
Total = 185.4 lbs standard or 181.0 for drop E (yikes I hope the neck can handle this)

80  D  = 13.5 lbs (if drop)
80  E  = 17.0 (if standard)
68  A  = 21.9
56  D  = 26.5
44  G  = 29.1
26  C  = 18.1
18p E  = 16.6
14p A  = 17.9
Total = 147.2 lbs standard or 143.7 drop D (the total on my guitar right now is about 135 and it seems fine)

It seems like the 4th and 5th strings in that pack are thicker than they need to be, but baritone string packs are always balanced oddly.

OK, now for the plain string replacement for the 3rd string:

If the target note is D, you have:
26p = 27.6 lbs
24p = 23.5 lbs
22p = 19.7 lbs
20p = 16.3 lbs

And for C:
26p = 21.9 lbs
24p = 18.6 lbs
22p = 15.7 lbs
20p = 12.9 lbs

Now, I've done quite a bit of experimenting over the last year trying to get all my guitars to have the same feel when they are different scale lengths and tuned to different keys. And a couple things I've learned are:

1) Take these numbers with a grain of salt because the "tension" is only in the direction that the strings are pulling on the neck. The feel of the strings when playing & bending is due to their "stiffness" and this is related to tension, but also to string gauge and whether it is plain or wound. So a 10p 26p 26w and 80w would all have a very different feel even if they had the same tension. Larger strings feel stiffer than smaller ones, but plain strings feel stiffer than wound ones. I haven't done the math on this though because it's much more complicated than the math for the tension. So I use these numbers as a rough guide and go by feel from there.

2) Sometimes you have to compromise to optimize feel and sound. You might like the feel of one gauge but you like the sound of another gauge. Thick strings sound fuller, bassier, and they have more sustain. I prefer a little lighter low end strings because they get a little more djent.

Wow, thanks for the info.  I do hope the neck can handle the tension.  I think it should--it's just a standard set of bari strings, tuned normally (or lower), plus the low string, which  ought to be what the neck is designed for in the first place.

I might weasel out on the .26 3rd and drop it to .22, but that will be a very minor (60 cent) expense.  I also like the djent sound, but I hate mud, so I'm guessing the .80 will suit me.  I play bass as well, so I'm used to fat strings.  Fast picking will be the test.

Man, I can't wait to get this thing rolling.  I'll start a build thread when I do.

 

[bvdrummer]

Wow djf, that's a nice build. I don't know how I missed that one when I was doing all my research. I thought that rosewood top was claro at first. Cool color combination.  :rock-on:

 

[bvdrummer]

Hey 2ManyShoes (and anyone else still reading this :laughing7: ) I'm now going to try a custom skinny top / heavy bottom type set after having this guy for a few weeks now.

It will be:
A - .068
D - .052
G - .040
C - .030
F - .019p
A - .014
D - .0105

For bends on the high strings - 10s were too light and 11s were a little too heavy. For the low strings, I want a little more low end / more beef.

 

[2ManyShoes]

Cool, let me know how that works out.  I'm starting to worry that my strings are going to be too heavy.  Got ahead of myself and bought several sets of the D'Addario mediums.  We'll see soon--the body and neck should ship in a week or so.

 

[bvdrummer]

Yeah, I was trying to make this play the same as my other guitars, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. The baritone is a whole different animal. I need to use it for what it is. I still love it though, and I can't wait to see how yours comes out.

 

[2ManyShoes]

BTW, it turns out Warmoth can't do the bari 7-string inlays in abalone--it's white plastic or nothing.  (Funny how you can buy something that turns out not to be for sale . . . .)  So I had to choose.  Because I want a "natural" look, I chose no inlays.

 

[swarfrat]

BK Whoppers are just so lovely. It's like if you put Black Korina & Wenge together you can't go wrong. (Unless you scribble graffiti all over it  :icon_jokercolor It's art. I don't care what stubhead says. Any two idiots of the correct gender can make a baby, and that's still a miraculous work of art. 

So go ahead and slather tung oil on BK without worrying about impressing the curmudgeons. You're not the artist here, the one who made such a beautiful wood in the first place is.

 

[bvdrummer]

I got the heavier strings (except the .068 is back-ordered so I just have a .064 now for the low A). I liked the sound better but strings 4, 5 & 6 felt a little too tight and were making my left hand uncomfortable. So I detuned it another whole step and now the baritone character is coming through a little more. I'll have to play with different string gauges a little more and see where I land.

I am realizing more and more that the tension formula is a good starting point - but then there's still a lot of trial and error to get everything to feel right. Especially when you are comparing guitars of different scale lengths.

 

[2ManyShoes]

Yeah, I'm planning on a long break-in period.  I went nuts during the planning phase and bought five sets of what I "thought" would be the right gauge and am sure I'll live to regret it.