Koa laminate over what core wood?

[WindsurfMaui]

I'm starting to think I enjoy the agony of chaing an idea that doesn't exist.

I had been looking at roasted alder or roasted ash bodies  both for tone but also I had planned on not putting a finish, for a while, but instead burnishing them and playing them slick and unfinished like my nice roasted maple core neck that feels so good that I have to sell all my finished neck guitars!!

But then for some reason, mostly that top wood pricing at Warmoth is the same for Koa as it is for any other top. So I thought put a Koa top on the roasted core wood. But the idea of koa on roasted ash or alder seemed strange. What do people think? And yes I would leave the whole body unfinished for a while and then maybe use Tru-oil on the Koa top only.

But then I thought maybe it was better to use a mahogany body and the koa top. And again I would sand the mahogany body and leave it unfinished and use tru-oil on the koa top eventually.

With either body wood I will have it chambered to make it as resonant and light as possible. I'd like to hear what people think and has anybody done this already? Thanks

 

[TBurst Std]

Well when you say unfinished, I am presuming that means no grain fill. If that is true, I'd stay away from Ash or Mahogany as those typically require grain fill.
Keep in mind, Koa is also normally grain filled.
If you want unfinished (not sure thats the best idea), go with a wood that doesn't require grain fill.
Alder, Maple, Canary, Ebony, Bloodwood, Purpleheart, etc.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

I've made assumptions and maybe I am wrong. I thought a roasted body would pretty much be sealed and wouldn't take or need to be filled so I could burnish the body just like my roasted maple neck and it would be fine. Maybe I would have to re-sand once a year to clean up the grime.  I wouldn't mind filling the roasted swamp ash with some black fill and then sanding that as part of the burnish but I thought the idea of roasting was to take the liquid out of the body so putting in a liquid fill seemed counter to the idea of roasting.

As for the Koa top I feel and probably wrong that matching a koa top with a roasted alder or ash body would just be wrong. Feels like putting solid gold hub caps on a chevy. I'm not sure if tonally it makes sense either but I like the idea of a koa top on something.

Has anyone tried to burnish unfinished mahogany? Does it work?

 

[BroccoliRob]

Ash isnt as dense as maple so that roasted body ain't gonna feel as smoove as your neck. Completely diff wood #species. you can trust me, bud, I saw The Prodigy play live in the mid nineties and still have the scar to prove it. 

 

[WindsurfMaui]

BroccoliRob you'll have to send me a link to The Prodigy I don't get the reference. But it sounds like you had a truly wild 90's.  :headbang:

 

[TBurst Std]

I've made assumptions and maybe I am wrong. I thought a roasted body would pretty much be sealed and wouldn't take or need to be filled so I could burnish the body just like my roasted maple neck and it would be fine. Maybe I would have to re-sand once a year to clean up the grime.  I wouldn't mind filling the roasted swamp ash with some black fill and then sanding that as part of the burnish but I thought the idea of roasting was to take the liquid out of the body so putting in a liquid fill seemed counter to the idea of roasting.

As for the Koa top I feel and probably wrong that matching a koa top with a roasted alder or ash body would just be wrong. Feels like putting solid gold hub caps on a chevy. I'm not sure if tonally it makes sense either but I like the idea of a koa top on something.

Has anyone tried to burnish unfinished mahogany? Does it work?

Roasting only removes moisture and improves stability. It has no impact on how open a grain is.
Koa, Mahogany, Ash, Korina, etc are all open grain woods that normally require grain filling.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

  OK so consensus seems to be if I pick roasted Alder or roasted Maple I can burnish them but the others need a filler or coating like tru-oil? Am I reading this right?

So how about the other question. Is it silly, wrong, illogical to put a koa top cap on a roasted alder or roasted ash body? I know that we all have the "right" to spend our money any silly way we want. But I would like to hear people's thoughts. Is it  a waste tone wise to match koa with a roasted ash or roasted alder? I suspect most people would say koa over a mahogany body would be OK am I right? Thanks.

 

[rgand]

No combination of woods is "wrong". You just get different characteristics with different combinations. On top of that, although to my ears the body does make a tonal difference, many don't hear any difference at all. It depends on what you play and how you play it combined with the electronics, neck and so forth.

In other words, go for it if you wish. See what you end up with.  :icon_thumright:

All that said, I wouldn't leave a body just burnished because it will probably get fairly dirty over time. I want that wood to be protected. But again, this is your decision, not mine and the only person you have to please is yourself.

Again, go for it if you wish. See what you end up with.  :icon_thumright:

 

[WindsurfMaui]

  Well I am pretty cheap with a dollar but to me the body, especially if it is unfinished, is the cheapest part of the guitar.  I can strip all the parts off and put them on another body. Of pull an EVH and cover it with strange tape and call it a masterpiece. That said eventually I might finish it in tru-oil .

I'm finding that I don't like twang. Some people like it and eat whole bowls full of it. I like a little as a spice but not too much. So I have already said I like the Strat because it is like a Chevy plenty of custom parts and easy for me to tinker so I am trying to cut back on the twangy and instead get a more bluesy tone. Which could mean single coils in series ( a project I'm working on in another thread) or putting in some Gibson Classic '57's instead of single coils, finding the right tone woods, deciding if I should go with fender or gibson scale to match the tone and then matching all that up to the right amp.

I like the challenge of learning all this stuff, but I don't want to waste money on something others have done and decided it just was a bad match. So if people have opinion or have tried certain combinations I would love to hear about them. Thanks for the help.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

  I did a search for koa top on ash body electric guitar and found that Fender did a limited run of rare Strats in 2019. They had maple necks but had some none traditional pick ups. I have to say the tone was too bright for me. Unfortunately I can't tell how much it is because of the pickups. But I'm now leaning away from ash and toward alder or mahogany.

 

[TBurst Std]

  I did a search for koa top on ash body electric guitar and found that Fender did a limited run of rare Strats in 2019. They had maple necks but had some none traditional pick ups. I have to say the tone was too bright for me. Unfortunately I can't tell how much it is because of the pickups. But I'm now leaning away from ash and toward alder or mahogany.

Do you think Led Zep I or II is twangy? That’s an ash body Tele
Google David Gilmour Fat Old Sun Live at Pompeii. Does that sound twangy?

 

[TBurst Std]

And you are still thinking Koa?
Koa normally needs grain fill

Items that benefit from burnishing are ones that are not typically grain filled.

You do realize, after you burnish Koa, it will still have an open grain. If you grain fill it and not finish, the grain fill will eventually fall out.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

I'm not an expert on Led Zeppelin but I did listen to Stairway to Heaven and I hear what I think is a 25 1/2 neck making chimey sounds around 5:30 in the song. Yes it is not twangy but it is bumping up to twangy in my ears.

Here is a tone I'm going for or should I say I'm going for a B.B. King Lucille tone but in a Strat and this is the closest I've heard so far. But I'd like a little more clean low end and this guy is using some capacitors to achieve this tone. I was hoping to achieve the tone by using wood rather than electronic but I will use electronic if necessary. I have to admit I was shocked that he could get that full tone from what looks to be an Alder body and a maple 25 1/2 neck. But he is my new default set up. But I'd like to go father by using better tone woods if I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Ht5dAW5Rs

I had given up on a 25 1/2 maple neck and thought a Gibson conversion 24 3/4 Goncalo Alves (I prefer not to use Rosewood if I can) neck would be needed. And I'm not sold on Koa top cap yet. But I'm leaning towards Mahogany and I thought Koa would help the tone a little as well as pretty up the guitar.

If I did get a Koa top cap I wouldn't touch it at first but if needed eventually I would use Tru-oil to put on a finish.

I hope my process isn't to confusing. Generally I do research and try to cram all the info into my brain and then sleep on it and when I wake up, and sometimes it takes a couple of days, certain items get crossed off my list and sometimes I think of additional questions but eventually my subconscious takes me to the right answer , the right answer for me. So I appreciate everyone giving me their experience to learn from.

 

[rgand]

Joe is really good at getting some pleasing tones. His line of pedals is quite impressive. I particularly like that Duh! fuzz pedal.