Kahler Trem ?

[Updown]

Hi … I'm thinking of using a Kahler 7327 or the 2327 on a future build using a Strat body.

These … http://www.wammiworld.com/b7327.php
                                OR
              http://www.wammiworld.com/b2327.php

I know Warmoth do the rout for these ……
But  :icon_scratch: 
Do I need the neck shimmed or angled or something as well ?
                            .... Plus ....
Can you use these with just a Graph Tech Nut & Sperzel Lok Tuners ?

I am asking about Kalher NOT a Floyd …….  So  :doh:  DON'T even say it !!

Thanks  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

Do I need the neck shimmed or angled or something as well ?

Those bridges are designed specifically for guitars that don't have tilted necks, so no.

Can you use these with just a Graph Tech Nut & Sperzel Lok Tuners ?

Sure. The locking nuts you usually see with Kahlers and Floyds only exist because Graphtech nuts and locking tuners weren't available back when those bridges were designed.

 

[Updown]

Thank you  :icon_thumright: ...... You Beauty  :icon_thumright:

I'll let Warmoth know what type it is when I put the order in too.

 

[ORCRiST]

Thank you  :icon_thumright: ...... You Beauty  :icon_thumright:

I'll let Warmoth know what type it is when I put the order in too.

Don't listen to Cagey - especially when he gives advice about things he hates - notably: any and all locking tremolo systems.  :icon_tongue:

I have personally used and like both Floyd and Kahler bridges, but whether you hate Floyd or not - Floyd locking nuts are commonly used with
Kahler bridges. Depending on how you much you actually use the bridge, I wouldn't only rely on locking tuners myself - even though others haven't
had issues going the locking tuner route. YMMV.

 

[Steve_Karl]

I'd be very very interested in hearing a purist type clip of the sound of this build once it's done.
By purist I mean ... direct into a sound card or mic pre ... no amplifier ... no FX

... so that we can evaluate the tone and sustain of the kahler.

 

[dmraco]

Warmoth will do it for you.  Just ask.  Is it still an option on the website?

The route it the same for both the 2000 and 7000 series whammys.  However the mounting holes are not and Warmoth will not drill.  You will have to do that.  VERY EASILY DONE.  It you buy your whammy from Kahler they will even enclose a template.  If you do not...I have one... :hello2:

Go with a nut locking system.  Locking tuners are useless when performing big dive bombs.  You will be sorry if you do not.  I used a Floyd locking nut...top notch.

Concerning the angle...I believe Warmoth suggested a slightly angled pocked 2-3 degrees if my memory serves.  Again...just call and ask.  Have the model number handy.

Concerning sustain...this topic would go on for days... :laughing8:  no pun intended.  To keep it short, I have both Kahlers and floyds...as well as hardtails...the difference is insignificant.  You can also designed what types of rollers you want on the bridge, this changes tone a bit too.

Best of luck.

 

[Cagey]

Go with a nut locking system.  Locking tuners are useless when performing big dive bombs.  You will be sorry if you do not.  I used a Floyd locking nut...top notch.

I currently have several guitars with vibrato bridges on them, have had a number of them in the past, not a one with a locking nut, all with locking tuners and well-made nuts. I don't have any tuning problems at all, and I've been known to dive-bomb like a fool.

Locking tuners are no different than a locking nut if they're strung properly and you have a good nut. By "strung properly", I mean you have to do it the way Schaller/Sperzel/etc. tell you to do it, which is to not leave any slack string to loop on the peg. If you do, you're going to have problems. And by "well-made nut", I mean one that the strings don't hang up in and doesn't force you to use a string tree.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Go with a nut locking system.  Locking tuners are useless when performing big dive bombs.  You will be sorry if you do not.  I used a Floyd locking nut...top notch.

I currently have several guitars with vibrato bridges on them, have had a number of them in the past, not a one with a locking nut, all with locking tuners and well-made nuts. I don't have any tuning problems at all, and I've been known to dive-bomb like a fool.

Good to hear!

 

[Updown]

Thanks for the input all  :icon_scratch: now I'm even more confused  :icon_jokercolor:

Yep use the Sperzels the way they say to.
Never had any tuning issue's using a Graph Tech Nut & Sperzel tuners BUT thats only using a Vintage 6 hole Trem & a Wilkinson Trem.

If i'm not a heavy user of the Trem, I presume the Spezels & Graph Tech Nut might still be OK.  :toothy11:

OH well you have given me some food for thought  ..... Thanks all.  :icon_biggrin:

Warmoth will do it for you.  Just ask.  Is it still an option on the website?

The route it the same for both the 2000 and 7000 series whammys.  However the mounting holes are not and Warmoth will not drill.  You will have to do that.  VERY EASILY DONE.  It you buy your whammy from Kahler they will even enclose a template.  If you do not...I have one... :hello2:

Concerning the angle...I believe Warmoth suggested a slightly angled pocked 2-3 degrees if my memory serves.  Again...just call and ask.  Have the model number handy.

Yep Warmoth will do & they said something about the neck pocket to be shimmed. 

Thanks DMRACO  :icon_thumright:
:icon_scratch:  Are you saying I need a Template to drill the holes ?

I have no trouble with drilling holes or using a Dremel.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[dmraco]

Do not shim.  Ask for an angled pocket it you are getting it made from scratch.  If you already have the body...shims will work too.
You really do not need the template...I used it and double check with the actual whammy.  You can use just  the whammy to line it up...just put some tape on the bottom to prevent scratches.

 

[Updown]

Thanks .....  :doh: I used the wrong word.

Jason replied with ..... 
For the kahler, you will just need to spec a note at the end of the order stating you’d like the Kahler rout and acknowledge the price of $10 for the required angled neck pocket.

Angled Neck Pocket ..... Not shimmed !!

Will send them my spec's for the Trem etc....
Was going to get a Custom built Body & a Neck at the same time, in a certain solid colour.
Had my run with Flame & Quilt Maple tops  :icon_biggrin: for now !!

I was hoping you'd see this post, as I know you have & use them ...... Many thanks again  :icon_thumright:

 

[Cagey]

You guys aren't listening.

Go to Kahler's site and look up the part numbers we're discussing. It specifically says it's for non-angled pockets and flat top guitars. If you angle the pocket, you're going to end up with the strings not clearing the frets at the pocket end and there's not any way to raise/lower the bridge other than saddle adjustments, which aren't likely to have enough range. So, you'll end up having to find a way to take the angle out, which is going to lower the floor of the neck pocket and the overall plane of the neck. At that point, you may end up with strings too far off the pocket end frets to adjust down with the saddles.

Cut at your peril, and be aware that:

A. It's difficult to put wood back once it's gone, and
B. It'll make for a spongier joint if if you can, which eats sustain and kills tone worms.

 

[Johnfv]

Back in the 80s I put a Kahler trem on a nice Hamer guitar I had but honestly I regretted it. I agree with Cagey, with locking tuners and eliminating friction at the nut I have several guitars that stay in tune very well.  Look at what a workout Jeff Beck gives his Strats...

 

[dmraco]

Cagey..I do not disagree.  Just stateing what warmoth told me.  I did review my invoice and my soloist does have an angled pocket.  The action is very good.

Here it is in all it's glory

 

[Cagey]

First, that's an absolutely beautiful instrument.

Second, I can't ignore your evidence on the subject, but I also can't ignore what the hardware maker says. So, what's a mother to do? The man's confused, and I don't blame him. Two authorities are telling him two different things.

Are we talking about the same bridge? He gave part numbers at the start of the thread, with links. The links go to the manufacturer, not some dingbat reseller. I don't know about you, but if I can't trust the manufacturer or their distributor(s), they don't get my business.

 

[back2thefutre]

with a locking nut vs a regular with locking tuners, I find there is a diff FEEL when using tremolo. With a locking nut you gotta whammy harder. That may or may not be a good thing, depends what you like. just saying in case you would like to know.

 

[Updown]

You guys aren't listening.

Go to Kahler's site and look up the part numbers we're discussing. It specifically says it's for non-angled pockets and flat top guitars. If you angle the pocket, you're going to end up with the strings not clearing the frets at the pocket end and there's not any way to raise/lower the bridge other than saddle adjustments, which aren't likely to have enough range. So, you'll end up having to find a way to take the angle out, which is going to lower the floor of the neck pocket and the overall plane of the neck. At that point, you may end up with strings too far off the pocket end frets to adjust down with the saddles.

Cut at your peril, and be aware that:

A. It's difficult to put wood back once it's gone, and
B. It'll make for a spongier joint if if you can, which eats sustain and kills tone worms.

Exactly why I was confused & posted original post here with spec's.
Because the Kahler site says that the ones i'm looking at, go on a FLAT TOP GUITAR without anything needed done ... besides a Rout !!
But Jason said ... For the kahler, you will just need to spec a note at the end of the order stating you’d like the Kahler rout and acknowledge the price of $10 for the required angled neck pocket.

Now I only asked Jason about the cost of doing this routing for a Kahler trem. Which there is NO cost to do that rout ..... cost is for neck pocket only.
:doh: (I didn't tell him which one I was thinking of at the time thou)  :toothy11:

May-be thats where i'm all mixed up  :sad1: sorry ...

I'll just send Jason a email with the model spec's of trem & a link to Kahler site to let him know what the Kahler site says.

BTW ...Top looking Guitar DMRACO  :icon_thumright:

Thanks again all, for your help / advice  :icon_thumright:  very much appreciated, shall let you now what the out come is !!

 

[leo12.]

I to would have agreed with Cagey  no angled neck pocket, specs on the bridges say flat bodied.
Looking at body specs at warmoth they have TWO neck pocket angles. lower  angle is for no recessed floyds.
Updown states its a strat build in his first post.
Knowing  Warmoth detail for quality it might give a better break angle on the saddles.
DMRACO has his build with angled pocket  (my first time hearing angled pockets for flat mount Kahlers).
DMRACO can you post some picks at neck /body joint & at saddle break to see saddle height & neck angle (nice build).

 

[Updown]

Sent email to Jason about this, with my spec's ... but it's early hours there now, so have till wait till morning.

Just spotted this here (go down to 5A) ..... http://www.wammiworld.com/Installation.php

Where it says ...... But note: When mounted on a Strat, the strings at the rollers should be 9/16” off the body. *** Shim neck if necessary ***

Know this is most probably why Jason said they will have to do a slight angle to the neck pocket when doing the Kahler Trem Rout.

Oh well hope to find out tomorrow  :toothy10: 

Knowing  Warmoth detail for quality it might give a better break angle on the saddles.

I think you just hit the nail on the head (in other words) you may be SPOT ON.  :icon_thumright:

Let ya all know .... when I know !!  :icon_biggrin:

 

[dmraco]

here are some photos...this is really hard to capture.  If you need any measurements...let me know.  I believe the angle Warmoth said was 2 degrees.