It's been fun

[Phrygian]

Well guys, I'm done here.    This is a long post so bear with me.  I wanted to wait a little while to see if Warmth would right their wrong before I posted this.  If I build another guitar it will probably be USACG.  At this point, I don't care if get kicked off the board for this.

I am on my third build, and this is the THIRD time that I have had a bad customer service experience.  I have twice received showcase Warmoth parts with obvious blemishes.  The first time I let it slide because it was my first build and was excited about completing my build.  I am sure some of you guys remember my post about it.  I deleted the post because it got a little too hot and I was trying to be too fair to Warmoth.  Below is the e-mail I sent to Warmoth after I received my first body.  They wanted me to send the body back so they could inspect it which is perfectly understandable.  However, why didn't QA pick up on this before it was in my hands?  I deleted the pictures a while back, but for those that don't remember my post, I can take some new close ups and post them.

My Strat body arrived today, and I was a bit
disappointed to find a fairly obvious man made
imperfection on a area that will not be obscured by
the pickguard. I could not tell in the showcase that
such in imperfection existed.  As far as I can tell,
it looks like someone might of hit it on a saw blade
before it was filled, dyed, and finished.  I am quite
surprised that an imperfection like this wasn't noted
in the description.

If you can't access the picture below for some reason,
I can send it picture as an attachment.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n152/phrygian7069/IM000740.jpg

I don't really want to send the body back.  I love the
flaming and the beautiful finish.  Is there something
else Warmoth can do for me, such as a reasonable
discount or credit on a future purchase?

On my next build, a J-Bass.  The neck arrived damaged by UPS.  After some debate, they refunded my money for the neck.  The trouble I had was that at first they just wanted me to send it back to them so they could determine if it was fixable (e.g. steam out the dings in the wood).  It was obviously not fixable since there were chips of wood missing.  Last but not least, I had to pay extra for a custom built rosewood neck because they did not have a comparable one in the showcase.  Oh, and of course, I had to wait for the custom neck.  I posted about it here and the whole post got delete because one of the board members was adimit that I be agressive with Warmoth over the support issue.  FYI, he was kicked off the board.  Below is Gregg' s PM to me about it.

Hello Phrygian,

theklanch's comments got the post pulled. His type of behavior gets posts deleted and is outlined here:

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=3.0

It is too bad that entire posts are deleted when one or two people go nuts but this is not an "anything goes" type of forum as stated in the link. To try and to surgically remove the intertwinned abusive single posts is just not realistic on an on-going bassis. I

I'll send him a note and let him know that more of that will be a reason to ban him from this forum.

Sorry for your post deletion, it had nothing to do with you or the others.

For the third and final installment of this trilogy, I received a Deluxe body with the paint chipped around the neck pock (visible with the neck in the pocket), and a CBS neck with dings in it.  Yet another Showcase QA problem. I notified them about them problem.  For the body, I was offered a discount to keep it (as it turns out.. THE SAME DISCOUNT I WOULD HAVE GOT WHEN THEN %20 SALE STARTED) or I could return it for another Showcase Deluxe body.  Well, I let the neck slide,  but I sent the body back over two weeks ago.  I gave Warmoth the tracking number.  It arrived at Warmth last Wednesday, but they still haven't shipped out the replacement (a finished body from the Showcase with only a few holes that needed to be enlarged).  Here are a couple of pictures of what I received:

I don't know if I've just had bad luck, or if others have just not had to deal with the "no can do" customer support.  I know I can't be the only one.  Based on some things I've read on the boards/blogs, I'm not.

 

[hannaugh]

I think you've just got bad luck, man.  At the comic book store where I work, we don't have too many problems with our orders (we do web orders and people pay in advance and come pick stuff up), but there is one guy that for some reason EVERY time he is there, something goes wrong with his order or his paperwork.  It's really weird, but it always happens to him if it's gonna happen at all.  It's usually employee to employee communication problems that result in botched customer support, and often it's the luck of the draw that day. 

I've never had problems with Warmoth, and there are many people on the forum who have bought a lot of pieces from with no problems.  I guess if you have to go somewhere else, that's what you gotta do, but it's definitely a bummer. 

To be fair though, theKlanch also got banned because he was writing a bunch of raunchy posts, and he did an awful lot of bragging about how much weed he liked to smoke.  The moderators frown on that sort of thing.

 

[Phrygian]

lol... I know, I remember something about that, but based on what Gregg said to me that is what I thought.  However, my whole thread was pulled.

 

[Skyze]

Go with Carvin, they have the best customer service ever. They never let me down, but my one dealing with Warmoth so far has also been slightly disappointing (customer service was bad, so I didnt even order, im gonna stick with Carvin)

 

[-CB-]

Man that sucks.

I'm personally not a fan of the "wrap it in thin foam and stick it in a close fit box" approach that W uses.  I've had a problem in the past.... UPS can easily do that box, and its contents a death blow.  The necks are packed better.

Still.... ya pay good money for stuff.. if it aint right, ya send it back I guess. 

 

[Phrygian]

Go with Carvin, they have the best customer service ever. They never let me down, but my one dealing with Warmoth so far has also been slightly disappointing (customer service was bad, so I didnt even order, im gonna stick with Carvin)

I want to build though, not have it built for me.  Warmoth well... they simply have the best selection of woods and options (I don't believe your gonna get Wenge or Canary from USACG).

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Skyze, this isn't really the same thing.  These were three items he ordered that were physically in his hands, and he felt were issues.  W just wouldn't do your paint job, which on their site they do say they don't typically do custom paint jobs.  So your unhappiness was never physically realized.  Instead, you are unhappy with them because they wouldn't do something for you that they say they don't do anyway.

 

[hannaugh]

Yeah Skyze, I'm kind of wondering at this point why you're hanging out on the forum if you're not interested in getting Warmoth stuff.  Why not hang out on the Carvin forum?  Not to be rude, it just seems odd. 

I thought about the problems that Phrygian is having and concluded that if this had happened to me, I would probably not even notice those blemishes until several days after I got the thing, and then I would assume that I had accidentally done it.  I immediately went and re-inspected the showcase body I got today... it was fine, though. 

 

[Phrygian]

Man that sucks.

I'm personally not a fan of the "wrap it in thin foam and stick it in a close fit box" approach that W uses.  I've had a problem in the past.... UPS can easily do that box, and its contents a death blow.  The necks are packed better.

Still.... ya pay good money for stuff.. if it aint right, ya send it back I guess.   

My neck was well packed this time, but that wasn't the problem.  The box was in immaculate condition so I am 99.99% sure it went into the box with the dings.  It was wrapped in foam and put into a triangle tube with peanuts.  My bass neck was unwrapped in a box with peanuts.  I guess they have made improvements.  But, like I said, that wasn't the problem this time.  Funny thing is that my Strat neck is perfect and it came unwrapped in a little rectangle shaped box made for guitar necks.  It had a couple of pieces of cardboard inside with holes for the neck to set in so that it was centered inside the box.

 

[JaySwear]

thats too bad. my only 2 issues with warmoth were
1) i had to cancel an order and it cost me a bunch because i got ahold of them too late and they had finished the body i was having made  :-\  that one's obviously on me.
2) they don't stock more bodies (finished or otherwise). but it's unfair to ask them to stock bodies they might never end up selling in the long run.

anyway, definitely sounds like you've had some bad luck with the parts. not entirely their or your fault, so i don't think anybody can blame you for switching to a different company. the good news is later on you can get a warmoth neck or body for the USAGC guitars if you chose to.

my only problem with USACG is they look more unorganized than most myspace homepages  :sad1:  their website doesn't really give me any comfort that what they build will be decent in any way. that, and the fact that they can only really be reached by phone. it says on their website they don't often respond to emails, and when i tried once (i really want a wolfgang style body) it did take a week or two to get a response. before i ordered i sent warmoth about an email a day for a month or longer. they had responded by 1PM EST just about every single day.

 

[tfarny]

I think you've just been unlucky and also are particular about things, nothing wrong with that don't get me wrong. My bass neck has at least three dings in it that size from regular use at practice just over a few months span of time. You are right of course that there shouldn't have been any dings and you are right not to be happy. But I wouldn't have been as upset, since those dings will never be noticed in use.

I can see how a business like Warmoth needs to set up some official and unofficial practices to discourage repeated returns, too (not talking about you, again) - they are custom parts and not cheap, and if 1% of customers kept returning stuff over and over it could be a huge drag on the business.

Well stick around the board anyhow and let us know about your USACG adventures, they make some cool stuff that warmoth doesn't (yet).  ccasion14: Happy holidays too.

 

[mullyman]

Well, for what it's worth, this upcoming build will be my third. So far the customer service reps I talked to have all been extremely nice and very helpful. I'm sorry about the chips around your neck pocket but that's on the edge of being unavoidable. Painting on the edge like that is going to more often than not chip. If they were to go over the edge then the neck wouldn't sit down in the pocket the correct way. It's kind of a catch 22. If I got something like that I wouldn't be surprised to the point of making a claim about it. But hey, we're all different.

My only issue with the company was on my first build. I ordered the neck rather than taking a showcase item because I specifically wanted

Wolfgang back contour
Wolfgang radius
Stainless steel frets
Mother of pearl position markers

I am 150% sure that I ordered those MOP position markers because those were the 1 feature on the entire guitar that I specifically wanted. When I placed my order I talked to the rep about getting the MOP dots and a MOP Celtic cross at the 12th fret. He explained to me that getting the one cross would cost the same as getting the entire fingerboard done like that. With that said, I passed on the cross. My neck arrived with black position markers. I called them and explained what happened and their reply was "It's not on the work order." What else could I do? They said I could send it back for a fee etc... Why? It wasn't my mistake, I'm a billion percent sure I ordered MOP dots. But, I had no recourse. I just decided that on my next build I would order that neck again, drill it into the rep, on the phone and record the conversation, that I want MOP position markers, and when it gets here swap necks with my first build and finally have the neck that I wanted on there.

My other issue is with parts. On the Warmoth page it says, and I quote, "When used in conjunction with the LSR roller nut or a graphite nut and locking tuners, Wilkinsons stay in tune! " With that advice, I ordered the Wilkinson, locking tuners and a graphite nut. I've taken my guitar to 3 different shops, one is ESP certified for repairs, and to this day that guitar will not stay in tune if I use the tremolo. It's basically a guitar with a tremolo that is a hard tail. That bums me big time.

But, I am not jaded with Warmoth. Sh!t happens. I have 2 guitars that I love and one more on the way that I'll love too. Sometimes you just gotta roll with the punches. Plus, customer service was not rude to me, just the opposite really. I'm happy with my decision to continue ordering Warmoth parts.
MULLY
never did order that neck though.....maybe on the 4th build.  :headbang1:

 

[Phrygian]

Well, for what it's worth, this upcoming build will be my third. So far the customer service reps I talked to have all been extremely nice and very helpful. I'm sorry about the chips around your neck pocket but that's on the edge of being unavoidable. Painting on the edge like that is going to more often than not chip. If they were to go over the edge then the neck wouldn't sit down in the pocket the correct way. It's kind of a catch 22. If I got something like that I wouldn't be surprised to the point of making a claim about it. But hey, we're all different.

My only issue with the company was on my first build. I ordered the neck rather than taking a showcase item because I specifically wanted

Wolfgang back contour
Wolfgang radius
Stainless steel frets
Mother of pearl position markers

I am 150% sure that I ordered those MOP position markers because those were the 1 feature on the entire guitar that I specifically wanted. When I placed my order I talked to the rep about getting the MOP dots and a MOP Celtic cross at the 12th fret. He explained to me that getting the one cross would cost the same as getting the entire fingerboard done like that. With that said, I passed on the cross. My neck arrived with black position markers. I called them and explained what happened and their reply was "It's not on the work order." What else could I do? They said I could send it back for a fee etc... Why? It wasn't my mistake, I'm a billion percent sure I ordered MOP dots. But, I had no recourse. I just decided that on my next build I would order that neck again, drill it into the rep, on the phone and record the conversation, that I want MOP position markers, and when it gets here swap necks with my first build and finally have the neck that I wanted on there.

My other issue is with parts. On the Warmoth page it says, and I quote, "When used in conjunction with the LSR roller nut or a graphite nut and locking tuners, Wilkinsons stay in tune! " With that advice, I ordered the Wilkinson, locking tuners and a graphite nut. I've taken my guitar to 3 different shops, one is ESP certified for repairs, and to this day that guitar will not stay in tune if I use the tremolo. It's basically a guitar with a tremolo that is a hard tail. That bums me big time.

But, I am not jaded with Warmoth. Sh!t happens. I have 2 guitars that I love and one more on the way that I'll love too. Sometimes you just gotta roll with the punches. Plus, customer service was not rude to me, just the opposite really. I'm happy with my decision to continue ordering Warmoth parts.
MULLY
never did order that neck though.....maybe on the 4th build.  :headbang1:

Look, would you walk into a store and buy a brand new guitar (non-relic) that you could see a big round paint bubble (look at the picture again... I'll post the high rez version if I have to) and missing paint visible with the neck on the guitar?

 

[JaySwear]

I'm a billion percent sure I ordered MOP dots.

thats definitely unfortunate, but it sounds like a good reason to get a new body AND neck made  :icon_biggrin:  but seriously, when i placed the order for my body have the time was the guy reading it back to me and me checking my list off 2 or 3 times. it's strange that they wouldn't catch that you wanted that, or that you wouldn't have caught that they missed it. sounds like a check mark in the wrong column, so you can't prove them wrong.

 

[JaySwear]

Look, would you walk into a store and buy a brand new guitar (non-relic) that you could see a big round paint bubble (look at the picture again... I'll post the high rez version if I have to) and missing paint visible with the neck on the guitar?

i couldn't see anything on the guitar the first time i looked, but i guess there is a tiny bubble neck to the neck pocket. i wouldn't have even noticed, to be honest, and if i had (with it being such an out of the way spot) i definitely wouldn't have a problem with it there. i guess it is undeniably a flaw in the finish though.

 

[mullyman]

Look, would you walk into a store and buy a brand new guitar (non-relic) that you could see a big round paint bubble (look at the picture again... I'll post the high rez version if I have to) and missing paint visible with the neck on the guitar?

Probably not. I don't remember saying I would though. I don't even remember implying that I would.
MULLY

 

[Phrygian]

Just to be clear, the main frustration I have is receiving flawed items.  I have received 6 Warmoth made parts from the Showcase.  A Strat body, a Warmoth Pro Strat Neck, a J-Bass Neck, a J-bass body, A Tele Deluxe Body, and a Warmoth Pro CBS neck.  Three of those parts had had obvious flaws and they were still shipped to me as is.  Maybe it's just bad luck.

Oh and one other thing I almost forgot about, the CBS neck arrived with about .02 relief at the 8th fret with the truss rod completely lose.  The other two necks I have were almost flat with a very slight back bow.

EDIT:  Also, the 20% discount offer for the body, right before the 20% sale, I think was a bit sly on their part.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

my only problem with USACG is they look more unorganized than most myspace homepages  :sad1:  their website doesn't really give me any comfort that what they build will be decent in any way. that, and the fact that they can only really be reached by phone. it says on their website they don't often respond to emails, and when i tried once (i really want a wolfgang style body) it did take a week or two to get a response. before i ordered i sent warmoth about an email a day for a month or longer. they had responded by 1PM EST just about every single day.

I agree that USACG's website is subpar and confusing to me, but it really doesn't bother me because I would rather them excel at parts building than web hosting.  Bill and Becky Lawrence (even before his health issues) and the guys at Avatar Cabs have some different phone, e-mail, and ordering etiquette, but the product doesn't suffer.  However, what does bug about USACG is their licensing (or lack of).  That's got to be worth something.  They are so far off of the big manufacturers' radar that they continue to make the Wolfgang, yet Warmoth gets cease and desist orders.

 

[JaySwear]

yeah the wolfgang thing bothers me a little bit. maybe it's dumb to worry about it, but if the wolfgang from warmoth was a threat (not really, just a licensing issue, but you know what i mean) but USACG's isn't in violation, how decent might their products be? probably not even really an issue, but it makes me wonder how they're so far off the radar when they claim to be able to compete with warmoth in the custom realm.

i still hope to get a wolfgang body from them one day, paired with a warmoth neck. but i'm not sure if i do or do not hope they're found out by then. i'd rather have a warmoth wolfgang body than a USACG, and i think it's unfair warmoth can't even make comments on the fact that they used to have one. weren't they even removed from the online gallery?

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I'm not knocking USACG, I've never ordered from them.  They do a lot of great stuff.  They've had a carved top Tele for a while, and do more neck profiles as well as custom neck profiles.  Their finish department is apparently a little more accomodating with custom orders, so the story goes.  The claim about them being competitive is their claim though, and carries less weight.  There's forum members here that do a lot of business with them for customer builds and swear by them, but they'll tell you Warmoth has superior necks that begin and end with their double expanding truss rod.  If W and USACG's prices are even close on comparable items, I'd go with Warmoth solely for the license.  That either means W's are a better value or USACG's are overpriced.

As far as the dicontinuation of the Wolfgang (or VW), somebody probably had to be made an example (Martha Stewart anyone?).  Even the current EVH made by Fender is not the EBMM or Peavey body shape.  EBMM still has that shape.  It's called the Axis.