I got an itchin'

[bbl4ck]

I went to see Ben Harper and Charlie Musselwhite a couple weeks ago and it was a seriously great show.  Ben Harper played most of the show on a lap steel.
I have never played a lap steel, but ever since that show I have a serious itchin' to get one to play around with. 
Mr. Harper plays his own signature model Asher lap steel, but I don't want to fork out $3000+ for something I have never played.
I am not looking for the real twangy country sound, but more of a bluesy sound.  I have seen some decent vintage Fender and Gibson lap steels in the $600 to $800 range which I could justify.
Any lap steel players on the board with suggestions on a mid price good sounding lap steel?

Thanks for your time and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTxQ37jOufs

:rock-on:

 

[Jusatele]

I messed with lap steel for a while, I can give some advice
any thing under a grand is pretty limited in features or pedals
getting a simple lap top is a great way to learn without investing a ton of money, a good lap top is pricey
If you decide that you really like it, get double with as many pedals as you can afford.

otherwise try to find a used one for cheap

 

[sixstringsamurai]

$199, about as cheap as it gets for these....

 

[bbl4ck]

getting a simple lap top is a great way to learn without investing a ton of money, a good lap top is pricey
If you decide that you really like it, get double with as many pedals as you can afford.

Yea, all I want to start with is a simple lap steel that you actually play on your lap, not on a stand.  I was looking at some videos of lap tops with all the foot pedals and knee pedals.  I am curious as to what and how all the pedals vary the pitch.  But hell, I have enough problems with six strings without adding another set of 6 strings and a bunch of pedals  :sad:

$199, about as cheap as it gets for these....

I was actually looking at that same Peavy, however, I think I want one just a grade up from that one.  I want one that I will be able to sell off easily if and when I get tired of it.  I have seen a few with a P-90 pickup, which I think would sound nice.  Thanks for the pic...

:rock-on:

 

[swarfrat]

Lap steel is a cool instrument, and this should not be taken as snooty or disdain but...

As far as minimum investment required to get a good one, lapsteel sets the bar REAAALLLY low.  Like possibly the lowest of any stringed instrument that isn't literally found on the toy aisle.
It doesn't require fretting, complex wood working, or mechanical contraptions rivaling a drawbride in complexity. Most of em only have a single pickup even.

 

[Great Ape]

Guitar Center (Sorry) has dozens of used Lap Steels available on line...maybe worth a look, anyway, if only to give you a sense of prices and of what's out there..and, these Asher Jrs are a great value, and a fine instrument at around $675...

 

[swarfrat]

Or you can just  get a bar and one of those lap steel conversion nuts. Loosen strings, jack the conversion nut under the strings, Retune.  Adjust your intonation if you feel brave.

 

[Nightclub Dwight]

Vintage Guitar magazine had a two part article a few months ago on making your own lap steel.  As Swarfrat mentioned, they are a pretty simple instrument that does not require the intricate fretwork as does a regular guitar.

I frequently see really cool vintage lap steels from the 50's on my local Craigslist (Pittsburgh).  They are quite affordable.  I'm actually dying to get a vintage one; aside from the sweet price they often look really cool.

 

[bagman67]

I picked up a Recording King RG-31 (solid peg head, not slotted) for about $159 new off the floor at a shop in Santa Clara, CA.  Nobody's idea of a premium bit of gear, but quite serviceable.  The soap bar pickup isn't too bad, considering the price.  Musician's Friend offers the same one  but with a slotted peg head design at $179, two years later.  If you decide to upgrade or that it's just not for you, you can dump it for a hundred bucks, and call the difference instrument rental.

 

[stubhead]

The only other website I spend time on is the Steel Guitar Forum:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/index.php

The knowledge level is really high, there's a higher proportion of working musicians to amateurs than any other place I've seen, and the participants... well, if you ask “Which pedals did Paul Franklin use on this Alan Jackson song?” you're likely to get answered by Paul Franklin. And I've bought more used gear there than anyplace else, it's quite self-policing that way. My 10-string MSA SuperSlide “lap” steel used to belong to Tommy White, staff steel guitarist for the Grand Old Opry.

There's both a non-pedal section in the forum, and some real active “for sale” sections.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=3e2a2d0a2d16f60ccba95959194d5338

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewforum.php?f=9

It cost $5 to join, or free if you buy some strings or CD's or something from b0b lee, the site administrator. Ther prize on there right now is a Gold Tone for $400, but it looks like he may have a buyer?

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=262928

There's three Rickenbacker “Electro's” on there right now:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=264231
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=263922
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=261945

However, they're all 6 strings, and it seems to me you might as well start with 8, it makes some things easier to do, not harder. For a new one, the Tom Morells are about as cheap as I'd go, the Gold Tones are usually $620 new, another one that gets great reviews are from Alan Melbert:
http://www.musonmt.com/index.html

There is some of the antique/historical pricing going on with Fenders & Gibsons, you may luck into a double 8 for less that $1,000, but it's not likely. Right now I only have 10-string, a MSA S10 and a Pedalmaster D10. If you hang out there for a bit and get a feel of it, that website's great – you can dig up all the instruction you'd need for free, pretty much. And they are pretty easy to build, there's a whole site for that too:
http://steelguitarbuilder.com/forum/index.php

Oh here's another:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=264218

Again, I would hold out/look for 8 strings. Another good site for no-pedal is Brad's Page of Steel
http://www.well.com/~wellvis/steel.html

The internet seems really suited to steel guitarists somehow, here's a nut who has basically tied up the entire subject of “Music Theory” and applied it to a lap steel:

http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/lessonsindex1.html
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/092901_5.html

This guy might be insane, but in an interesting way...

 

[Tonar8352]

Bart, this will scratch your itch. 

 

[stubhead]

There's a company that makes bigass steel conversion necks, to fit a Fender pocket:
http://www.lapdancerguitars.com/news.html. Brass nuts come up often. Warmoth carries a brass nut for Fenders - instead of cutting the string notches to the "correct" spec, you can just file a little groove on top. There are quite a few people who have made one of those huge necks in their garage. Those little nut risers that fit over a regular neck have a really wide string spacing - the high E and low E are off the edge of the neck. Better to just make a nut - it doesn't have to be anything except level.

Just learn to play this and you'll be alright:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX06XkUhkbs

 

[bbl4ck]

Great thanks to you Mr. Stub :headbang1: for all the details and great links you provided. 
Funny, I had just stumbled on the steel guitar forum a couple days ago while doing a search for lap steels.
Looks to be a great source of info, especially for someone who is green, green, green to lap steels like me.
That is quite a score to pick up a lap steel that belonged to Tommy White and I am sure you must love pickin' on her. 

So, please explain why you mention playing an 8 string is easier than a 6 string?  Does it have anything to do with having more available open tunings related to more strings?  Just curious!
It looks like my first lap steel is going to be a 6 string.  Tonar was kind enough to hook me up with a nice vintage lap steel that I am really excited to play with.
It is a 53' Fender and is completely original except for the tuner buttons.  Also comes with the original hard shell case.  I can't wait to pluck her...

I am concerned because I fear this will likely not be my first and only lap steel.  I am to the point that I am going to have to thin out the heard to justify buying many more geetars. 
I think I would like to also have a vintage steel with a P-90 style pickup.  I came across an old Gibson Century 6 with a P-90 style pick up and the sound clips really sounded great.  Unfortunately it had just sold.

Quick question about strings.  Do you use the same strings on a lap steel you would use for a regular electric, or are there special or preferred strings for lap steels?

Anyway, thanks again for all the great info!!!

Be cool and  :rock-on:

 

[bbl4ck]

Just learn to play this and you'll be alright:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX06XkUhkbs

Damn Mr. Stub...
I have never heard of, let alone listed to Freddie Roulette, but I am definitely going to pickup some of his music. 
He does some sweet, sweet pickin' on that lap steel.  Thanks for the turn on!  :icon_thumright:

 

[stubhead]

Yep, same strings. There are people who put flatwounds on because of the squeekies, but it's more important on an acoustic - Dobro, or Weissenborn. On an electric, they really don't make too much difference. It's like a six-string "underarm guitar", as they're so quaintly referred - you'll EQ out the scrape anyway. This something from the steel forum archives:

http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm

It's a listing of suggested string gauges for each and every note, actually the highest you'd expect to pull to. It's optimal for a 22.5" scale pedal steel, but you can just do some relative directions up or down a gauge or a few. I cut and pasted it, tidied it up, and I still keep a bunch of copies everywhere. It's as useful on regular guitars too. As far as the strings being the same, a pedal steel puts some pretty huge demands on them, so there are a couple of specialty makers (actually there are only, like, three string winder companies in America, all the different string brands just turned in certain specs to the factory). But if you're not stretching them with pedals, regular strings are fine.

The biggest thing to think on is what tuning to use - hooboy, it's a rat's nest there! Brad's page of steel explains it as well as anyone:
http://www.well.com/~wellvis/tuning.html

The reason I say 8 strings are easier, is that you have a little more choice about bass notes. But it really seems like there's almost two divergent interests, one is to play solo bluesy fingerpicking stuff and the other is to play like slide, in a band. If you've got a bass player & drummer holding down the bottom and the beat, you don't have to worry too much about them yourself. 

Oh here's a fun thread from the SGF:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208507

It's like 13 pages of not-country steel hours and hours of wasted ti... no, Fun! Hours and hours of fun! A few on my faves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbLqRh7_aiM
I don't know what you even call that, these guys are like composers in Japan. You have to poke through all six, they're all different.
Dave Easley's a friend, and maybe one of the monstrous jazz musicians in the world, just happens to find himself behind a steel guitar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI19M5cZ4rk

Red Sparowes, kind of a sludgy postrock doom ba.. wait a minute is it post-sludgy doo.., post doomy? Ah, what the hell, it ain't yer grandma's pedal steel -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDWBR-TZ6yI
Composers are slowly but surely finding out that a steel guitar is no more a "country instrument" than a fiddle or one of them pianers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGGKCT-evrQ&feature=share&list=UUQ6nYUbjpofxx01_9rFZKbA
Here's an six-stringer lap steel at play - Chris Coombs wrote the entire "Race Riot Suite" too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHbOZjrwZ0w