Hipshot staggered tuners : String hole not coming all the way trough

[PatrickWD]

Got my tuners today. Hipshot staggered open gear classic (non-locking).

I got these to avoid neck dive since the body is super light.

Installing them using the universal mounting plate was easy, but i discovered that the string hole is note clearing the top of the nut and washer completely on the high e and b strings.

I haven't tried stringing it yet, but i fear i won't be able to get enough winds on this.

Have any of you had this problem with these tuners?


The neck is a Warmoth gibson conversion tele neck. I discovered that the head is slightly thicker than the head on my Fender Telecaster. This might be part of the problem.

 

[rockandroller]

Are those the E&B tuners? You might get away with that, but if not - I would try using a much thinner washer (and torquing down hard).
You only need a wind and a half, with a good 'lock stringing' technique...

 

[PatrickWD]

Are those the E&B tuners? You might get away with that, but if not - I would try using a much thinner washer (and torquing down hard).
You only need a wind and a half, with a good 'lock stringing' technique...

Yes, it's the E and B tuners.
I usually prefer 3 winds on the thinner strings to avoid slipping. I'll have to see how many winds i can get on there when i get a bit further in the build.

 

[stratamania]

Yes, it's the E and B tuners.
I usually prefer 3 winds on the thinner strings to avoid slipping. I'll have to see how many winds i can get on there when i get a bit further in the build.

Perhaps without the UMP plate they will protrude a little more.

Another option would be to see if you can get those two machines exchanged for the next longer length.

 

[Hagwood]

Perhaps without the UMP plate they will protrude a little more.

Another option would be to see if you can get those two machines exchanged for the next longer length.

I agree, it's probably the plate making the difference. I never use those, I prefer the cleaner look without. Just line them up good and drill holes for the screws. Unless you're just trying to cover up old screw holes......

 

[mayfly]

I agree, it's probably the plate making the difference. I never use those, I prefer the cleaner look without. Just line them up good and drill holes for the screws. Unless you're just trying to cover up old screw holes......

This ^^^

 

[PatrickWD]

Removing the UMP might help a bit, but the plate is only 0.5 mm thick. It might be enough, but i'm not sure.

I need to get some sandpaper to widen the holes for the string ferrules a bit, and once i have those installed I can try stringing it up to see how many winds i can get on the post at the moment.

I'm going to take the guitar to my luthier at some point anyway to level the frets and do most of the electronics, so i'm concidering having him drill the holes for the tuners as well. I could try it myself, but I'm a bit afraid to mess something up..

I see Hipshot sells single tuners in all lenghts, so I'm concidering ordering two tuners in the medium lenght like Stratamania suggests if removing the plate doesn't help.

 

[supertruper1988]

Locking tuners should have about 1-1/2 turns max. That is the whole point of locking tuners, less wraps = better tuning stability. With more wraps, they will loosen when using the trem causing pitch return problems.

 

[PatrickWD]

Locking tuners should have about 1-1/2 turns max. That is the whole point of locking tuners, less wraps = better tuning stability. With more wraps, they will loosen when using the trem causing pitch return problems.

These are not locking tuners. To save weight to avoid neck dive i went for the non-lock hipshots.

If these were locking, the short post wouldn't be a problem.

 

[supertruper1988]

Oh I missed that detail. Whoops.

 

[rauchman]

Does the string slide through? If so, you may want the tuner protruding less, as this will give the string a slightly lower break angle over the nut. On the Warmoth Tele I built (avatar), I used the Hipshot Locking tuners. The E and B string holes fully protruded, but on the E string I was getting a little buzz. I added a string tree and it eliminated the buzz. There wasn't enough of a break angle. On another build, I used the same tuners and there was no issue.

 

[PatrickWD]

Does the string slide through? If so, you may want the tuner protruding less, as this will give the string a slightly lower break angle over the nut. On the Warmoth Tele I built (avatar), I used the Hipshot Locking tuners. The E and B string holes fully protruded, but on the E string I was getting a little buzz. I added a string tree and it eliminated the buzz. There wasn't enough of a break angle. On another build, I used the same tuners and there was no issue.

Yes, the strings does come trough, but there’s just enough room to get enough windings on there.

After three windings, the string is beginning to overlap on the b string.

I have handed the guitar over to my luthier to have the frets levelled today, and I asked him to drill holes for the tuners as well. I’m hoping removing the mounting plate will give me enough space.

This is how it ended up after stringing the guitar up:

 

[Dickie Blues]

Did you get it fixed? curious about hipshots.

 

[PatrickWD]

Did you get it fixed? curious about hipshots.

Sort of.. After having my luthier drill holes and installing the tuners without the mounting plate, the holes come through about 2/3 the way. It's enough so that I can get enough windings on there without the windings starting to go over the others, so it's good enough for me.

Because the Warmoth head is slightly thicker than Fenders, staggered Hipshots are probably not the way to go if you want the tuners to fit perfectly. The E and A tuners come through enough, though, so the non-staggered tuners are probably better.

 

[PatrickWD]

I'm also thinking that i need to get a string tree installed as well, something I wanted to avoid by getting the staggered tuners. I can hear a zingy resonance on the high E string when i play the open string. It's only on that string though, but it's noticeable enough for me that I'm going to try a string tree.

 

[PatrickWD]

My Fender telecaster has a 13,8 mm thick head, while my Warmoth neck on this guitar is 15,3 mm thick. So the Warmoth is significantly thicker. I don't know if this is all Warmoth necks, or if there's some variation between necks.

 

[Shellcaster]

I'm also thinking that i need to get a string tree installed as well, something I wanted to avoid by getting the staggered tuners. I can hear a zingy resonance on the high E string when i play the open string. It's only on that string though, but it's noticeable enough for me that I'm going to try a string tree.

If the string tree doesn't clear the zing check the bridge saddles... I'm dealing with that right now on an old Strat I'm reviving. The saddles and screws were so rusted in place when I broke them free all of them proved to be rust powered and are now resonating in place. It's kinda cool sounding but because I don't have another guitar to keep tuned to E-flat standard it's already driving me nuts. Also, IMHO the weight difference between locking and standard tuners is negligible... Although I've never used hipshot tuners the difference between "modern" fender standard and locking tuners you would need a gram scale to tell. My old Sperzels are maybe a little heavier. They're all heavier than the old kluson tuners but anything is better than those most of the time lol

 

[PatrickWD]

If the string tree doesn't clear the zing check the bridge saddles... I'm dealing with that right now on an old Strat I'm reviving. The saddles and screws were so rusted in place when I broke them free all of them proved to be rust powered and are now resonating in place. It's kinda cool sounding but because I don't have another guitar to keep tuned to E-flat standard it's already driving me nuts. Also, IMHO the weight difference between locking and standard tuners is negligible... Although I've never used hipshot tuners the difference between "modern" fender standard and locking tuners you would need a gram scale to tell. My old Sperzels are maybe a little heavier. They're all heavier than the old kluson tuners but anything is better than those most of the time lol

I'm pretty sure it's the lack of a string tree, since lightly pressing on the string behind the nut makes the zing go away. It's also only on the open string, not on fretted notes.

The tuners were a 10g difference between the Hipshot open locking tuners and the Hipshot open standard tuners. So 60g for all 6.
It might make that much difference, but since I ended up having to use 400 g of wheel weights glued inside the cavity to avoid neck-dive, I'm glad I went for the lightest ones I could find. I didn't realise how heavy a Gibson scale modern construction neck would be, so I bought a roasted swamp ash chambered body. That body ended up being extremely lightweight..

 

[Shellcaster]

I'm pretty sure it's the lack of a string tree, since lightly pressing on the string behind the nut makes the zing go away. It's also only on the open string, not on fretted notes.

The tuners were a 10g difference between the Hipshot open locking tuners and the Hipshot open standard tuners. So 60g for all 6.
It might make that much difference, but since I ended up having to use 400 g of wheel weights glued inside the cavity to avoid neck-dive, I'm glad I went for the lightest ones I could find. I didn't realise how heavy a Gibson scale modern construction neck would be, so I bought a roasted swamp ash chambered body. That body ended up being extremely lightweight..

Fair enough

 

[Spud]

In my limited experience with staggered tuners, I still needed a string tree.