Going back into ancient Warmoth history...

unstrung

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This concerns the redesigning of Warmoth shapes to suit the complaints of other guitar manufacturers.

I see that now Gibson shapes are out, as is the Jackson headstock (probably old news to you but I just got back). That's a shame.

It seems to be an ongoing process. For instance... the VIP body, I think, long ago may have replaced a more directly resembling PRS shape. Did I imagine this? Because I think I recall long ago seeing a real PRS looking thing from Warmoth in a used classified. Can anyone verify that?
 
unstrung said:
For instance... the VIP body, I think, long ago may have replaced a more directly resembling PRS shape. Did I imagine this? Because I think I recall long ago seeing a real PRS looking thing from Warmoth in a used classified. Can anyone verify that?

No, you didn't imagine it. I actually have one. I've also seen a couple on eBay, usually listed for some outrageous price so they never sell. I have a "work in progress" thread started on it here that includes some pics of the original and modern VIPs side-by-side, if you're curious.
 
It's a shame about the Gibson-esque parts being pulled from the line. That was a complete idiot-move on Henry's/Ric Olsen's part. That bridge is now burned forever.
 
Cagey said:
unstrung said:
For instance... the VIP body, I think, long ago may have replaced a more directly resembling PRS shape. Did I imagine this? Because I think I recall long ago seeing a real PRS looking thing from Warmoth in a used classified. Can anyone verify that?

No, you didn't imagine it. I actually have one. I've also seen a couple on eBay, usually listed for some outrageous price so they never sell. I have a "work in progress" thread started on it here that includes some pics of the original and modern VIPs side-by-side, if you're curious.

Wow, that bod looks killer! It's a shame they had to pull the PRS look. I'd snap one up. The current VIP look to me is, don't hate me for saying this... pretty bloated and ugly.
 
Yes, Gibby drew a curve back in the 1950's and will sue anyone who draws anything curvy apparently. (or anyone who makes a quality version at more affordable prices during the 1970's) There doesn't seem to be a limitless array of design possibilities for electric guitars that a large number of buyers find appealing but that doesn't seem to matter to them as legal owners of a curve.  But you can still compile a Warmoth for less and have a better guitar. 
 
The PRS similarity yank was due to the friendship of PRS and Ken Warmoth in a "won't emulate" agreement.

All of the other yanks were due to a guy with a tie and a very direct letter.
 
Did Warmoth ever make an LP Jr body? I was at a bar/restaurant the other day, and the guy playing rhythm had a gold, LPJ body with a Tele bridge and control cover and what looked like a cream P-90 in the neck. Neck was blond, (Canary?), with no logo on what appeared to be a modified Gibson shaped  headstock. I didn't have a chance to talk to the man, but I sure liked his guitar! 
 
Thanks Tony. That was one sweet looking axe. I was having dinner with the wife, and she didn't want to wait for the set to end.
 
LewisCountyLad said:
It's a shame about the Gibson-esque parts being pulled from the line. That was a complete idiot-move on Henry's/Ric Olsen's part. That bridge is now burned forever.
I think you'll find the never wanted that bridge to be built in the first place.

It always amazes me how people can't grasp the concept of companies not being happy with other companies ripping them off. It doesn't matter who your preferred manufacturer is, it doesn't matter what kind of product you prefer, it doesn't matter how much you're only in it for the 'art' or whatever. If somebody takes your design, replicates it and sells it, you don't just let them carry on. Nikon wouldn't let Panasonic copy their cameras, Apple wouldn't let Dell replicate their computers, BMW wouldn't let Ferrari copy a car, Seymour Duncan would never let Bare Knuckle copy the JB; why would you ever think Gibson would be happy for people to copy the SG or Les Paul? Hell, in many countries there is an array of copyright and trademark laws demanding that rights owners aggressively defend their products or they actually lose the rights to them.

If anything, the "idiot-move" is whoever it is at Fender who keeps giving parts companies a licence to make copies or near-enough copies of Fender bodies and necks, as it's Fender who, right now, have the highest mark-up of any major brand and they're the easiest/cheapest for people to replicate through parts. You would think Fender would have clamped down on parts companies by now. Think of how many Strats, Teles, Jazzmasters and Jaguars that have been made with money spent at Warmoth, USACG, Musikraft or whever else, instead of being spent on a Fender. Fender have probably missed out on billions.

'Course, there are all the dodgy factories in China pumping out copies of Gibson and PRS and whoever else, but I would hope most people are smart enough to avoid those and not consider them to be comparable anyway.
 
The "bridge" I was talking about had to do with goods and services between Warmoth & Gibson on a commercial level; not in the public eye. The moral here is that Henry and his cronies are P'sOS.
 
We are still talking about one company's take on a curve as opposed to another. I have a hard time buying into the idea of infringement if we are talking about curves cut into wood. Gibson and Fender arguably mass produce guitars and if they can't produce a good product for a more reasonable price who should take the blame? When I started playing again and compared what Fender wanted for a USA or Custom Shop strat and what I could gather together from the parts culture it was no contest whatsoever.
 
musicispeace said:
... Gibson and Fender arguably mass produce guitars and if they can't produce a good product for a more reasonable price who should take the blame? When I started playing again and compared what Fender wanted for a USA or Custom Shop strat and what I could gather together from the parts culture it was no contest whatsoever.

Don't think that's true. In our days cheap guitars are great considering their cost. When I started playing guitar (and earlier) cheap guitars were a waste of money but check a Squier or an import PRS and there are very good guitars as they are. If you can't live without the MIA indication on your guitar then pay more money to have it but Asian companies are licensed from most of the well know US companies and they are producing very good guitars. Just like the Japanese I predict Koreans and Chinese will get soon in the same level as Americans and Europeans. Gibson even makes US guitars that are affordable, not cheap but under $1000.

Gibson fought a giant like PRS, I don't think they had any trouble stopping Warmoth. I don't like it but I understand, they are a company and just like any other company they are in this for profit and nothing else. No one is making art, everyone is in it for the money and if the money stop coming they will eventually shut down and move on.

As far as Warmoth I believe they are in their worse period because of the less familiar body shapes. Not long ago they had BC Rich, M. Man, Gibson and Jackson shapes. Now it's only Fender, Jackson the Ibanez Iceman and shapes that resemble something else. Some may like the new shapes, some may not.

 
As it happens, when Gibson fought PRS, Gibson lost.  But then, PRS is likely a lot wealthier and can withstand a lawsuit better than a small business like Warmoth.


And the Koreans are already there, and so are the Chinese.  Check out Agile guitars, Blueridge acoustic instruments, and on and on.
 
Right. I'd put my Agile 3200 up against a Gibson LP Custom any day, and the Agile would win. And I'm not just talking about "for the money". It's simply a nicer, higher-quality unit. But, as long as we're talking about money, the Agile isn't just more attractively priced by say, 50% or more. We're talking nearly an order of magnitude. Like, $400-$500 for the Agile vs. $3,500-$4,000 for the Gibby. Not that the Gibby is a shabby unit - it's not - it's just wildly expensive and the Koreans have got their game on.
 
Depends on the spec you want, the feel you like and whether you take the time to sort through guitars or if you want to just buy something online and hope for the best.
If you buy a Gibson blind then you're asking for disappointment; the neck profiles, the weight, the tone, everything is different from unit to unit, even within a single model line. That's the nature of guitars that are finished off by hand and simultaneously produced in large numbers but also to a high minimum quality. With the Custom Shop guitars it's even more of a gamble. There is no such thing as an outright bad Gibson, but any given collection of Gibson guitars is going to vary far, far more than a similar number of guitars from any other manufacturer, and that is a problem in the current market where most people are buying guitars online, without having ever seen the instrument in person, and are expecting it to perfectly fit them from the moment they open the box. So yes, your Agile will be better than any Gibson LP Custom, if you're not putting in the time to find a Gibson that fits you. If you do have the time and the money, the Gibson that fits you will absolutely blow away the Agile, or any other MIK, similar guitar.

Same goes for a Custom Shop Fender, a PRS, or whatever else along those lines.

And that comes from somebody who has bought and then sold three Gibson Custom Shop guitars because he kept going back to his MIK Epiphone LP. And my most-desired, most sought-after guitar is an old MIK Fender model. And when I was starting a guitar line of my own, the first factories I wanted to talk to were the Korean ones. I know what's capable of coming out of Korea. I know how good those guitars are. And yet, for me, the very top Gibsons and Fenders are still miles ahead.

The fit of any given guitar is wholly subjective to your hands and ears and whatever is perfect for you will not be perfect for anybody else on the planet. Monetary value is entirely subjective to you and your priorities and financial capabilities and opportunities. For every person who thinks a top-end Gibson, Fender or PRS instrument is too expensive and not made well enough there is another who thinks they're bargains and irreplaceable. For every person here who thinks Warmoth produces better parts than the Fender Custom Shop can and believes their Warmoth builds are twice the guitar a Fender is for half the price, there is somebody else who will tell you Warmoth is cheaply-made, quickly CNC'd generic rubbish and no build will ever touch an MIA Fender or a Custom Shop Fender or whatever.

(And, full disclosure: Personally, I do think the Fender Custom Shop is overpriced and stupidly limited, and my main three guitars are a Korean-made Epiphone, a production Gibson and a Warmoth build. The Gibson was the cheapest of the three, by the way. New.)

(And, just to keep this going: Epiphone Elitist and Japanese ESPs make this whole thing redundant.)
 

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