Fractal experts....come on in!

[TBurst Std]

When you say 2 paths, what does that mean? What I am asking is, as you know, in a Fractal preset there are several rows. You can build a preset that is 100% horizontal from left to right, or link blocks from different rows. For the Helix do you mean only 2 rows?
In the end I am thinking to still wait for the eventual (I hope!) Axe 4.

Yes, there are several rows in Fractal as well as Helix. The ability to split out those rows in a Helix is limited to 2.
Fractal - picture a single row where half through, say coming out of the cab ir, you can place 3 effects vertically and run to each of them from the cab, then pull them back into a single path if desired. That way the effects don't impact each other.

With Helix could can only run 2. Can't do 3, I've tried and asked people. No go.

 

[Ozopart]

Yes, there are several rows in Fractal as well as Helix. The ability to split out those rows in a Helix is limited to 2.
Fractal - picture a single row where half through, say coming out of the cab ir, you can place 3 effects vertically and run to each of them from the cab, then pull them back into a single path if desired. That way the effects don't impact each other.

With Helix could can only run 2. Can't do 3, I've tried and asked people. No go.

While I rarely go more than 2 rows in my current Fractal product, the FM3, I do go 3 rows at times. It wouldn't be a major issue in terms of thinking about the Helix Rack, but given that it is quite long in the tooth in terms of the hardware release, and assuming no major upgrades if new hardware is released tomorrow, I still think waiting for an AXE 4 is the best option for me.

 

[ThisIsHuhWow404]

@TBurst Std @Ozopart Just to further clarify, the Helix has two processors and each of the two "paths" is connected to one processor. It’s intended to allow you to better allocate DSP. It seems limiting but it does have a purpose. You can also split each "path" into two "rows" and effectively have four "rows." Like, for example, if you wanted to run two different amps or effects parallel to each other.

The "paths" run parallel to one another. This means you can feed the first "path" into the second "path" and allocate different blocks based on how much DSP they hog. This can limit what you can do with one signal chain, as the "paths" need to go one into the other. You can’t send the signal of the first "path" into the second "path" and then send that signal back out into the first "path" again.

You can also run two different instruments (or vocals) on the two different "paths."

The pitch shifting/whammy/capo/octave effects blocks that (usually) go in the beginning of the chain, and the really big complex reverbs and delays that (usually) come towards the end both hog up a lot of DSP. As do a few of the amp models (I have a lot of trouble making a signal chain with the Mesa Boogie Mark IV and Soldano SLO models personally). So if you have a Whammy on the beginning of the first "path" and some really lush shimmer effect towards the end of the second "path" you’re already pretty limited in what you can put between them.

The notion of running other independent pedals with modelers is really a lot more essential than people make it out to be. I don’t think any of them are really the be all end all "everything in one unit" we’ve been led to believe. If you’re a Helix owner who likes having a super complex signal chain, I actually recommend biting the bullet and saving up for a DigiTech Whammy DT and/or a Strymon BigSky (among other pedals) to run independently in the Helix’s effects loop. After that you should be able to do whatever you want that the Helix has to offer without having to worry about DSP (unless you absolutely need to use the Soldano).

I don’t have any Fractal experience so I’m not sure how processing and DSP allocation works on AxeFX.

I’ve kind of come into the mindset that the helix is really just amp models and cab models/IRs and everything else is just there if you really need it, but to really increase versatility, you should still buy yourself other pedals to use independently in the effects loop if you use them a lot.

 

[TBurst Std]

Thank you for the response.
So tell me this, I have a single path, after the cab ir, I want 3 paths, 1. Delay 1, 2. Delay 2, 3. Reverb. Then I want them back to a single out. How do I do that?

 

[ThisIsHuhWow404]

Thank you for the response.
So tell me this, I have a single path, after the cab ir, I want 3 paths, 1. Delay 1, 2. Delay 2, 3. Reverb. Then I want them back to a single out. How do I do that?

You need the output of "path one" to go to the input of "path two" and have the output of "path two” go to whatever your output is (the XLR, Headphones, or 1/4 output or whatever).

From there you can split path one and two into different directions.

Based on what you’re saying, the most logical thing would be to put the Amp and Cab blocks towards the end of path one, with the delays and reverbs in path two, using the split and merge blocks in path two to get the signal chain however you want it.

(Me personally I always put the cab last, to get a more accurate "actual amp in the room sound,” and only put reverb after the cab in specific circumstances. I also move the microphone pretty far away in the cab block’s settings. You can do whatever you want and a lot of people swear by putting delay and Reverb, and even some modulation, at the very end. This is also very dependent on if you’re just playing guitar for fun in your bedroom or actually recording with an interface.)

If you don’t have enough DSP in path two to get everything, there’s probably still plenty of DSP left in path one. You can move the Cab block earlier and throw whatever your earlier delays in the signal chain are there before it outputs to path two. It shouldn’t make any difference compared to if it was the first block in path two.

Also, don’t be afraid to go into the Legacy effects where you find all of the old Pod/DL4/MM4/etc models. They’re not as DSP heavy and still sound really good. I often gravitate towards the Legacy delays over the newer ones. It’s literally the same algorithms as the DL4, which over the years has become an iconic delay pedal on the level of the DM-2, Memory Man, Roland Space Echo, MXR Carbon Copy etc.

 

[ThisIsHuhWow404]

Line 6 did announce a new line of Helix models called Helix Stadium yesterday, with capturing capabilities and a new line of amp and pedal models, with all of the original Helix’s models being included as "Legacy" models (much like how all the Pod stuff is in the original Helix).

They said they’re not discontinuing the original Helix yet and there’s still software updates coming out for it in the future, but the original Helix/LT/Stomp models are heavily discounted now.

 

[TBurst Std]

You need the output of "path one" to go to the input of "path two" and have the output of "path two” go to whatever your output is (the XLR, Headphones, or 1/4 output or whatever).

From there you can split path one and two into different directions.

Based on what you’re saying, the most logical thing would be to put the Amp and Cab blocks towards the end of path one, with the delays and reverbs in path two, using the split and merge blocks in path two to get the signal chain however you want it.

(Me personally I always put the cab last, to get a more accurate "actual amp in the room sound,” and only put reverb after the cab in specific circumstances. I also move the microphone pretty far away in the cab block’s settings. You can do whatever you want and a lot of people swear by putting delay and Reverb, and even some modulation, at the very end. This is also very dependent on if you’re just playing guitar for fun in your bedroom or actually recording with an interface.)

If you don’t have enough DSP in path two to get everything, there’s probably still plenty of DSP left in path one. You can move the Cab block earlier and throw whatever your earlier delays in the signal chain are there before it outputs to path two. It shouldn’t make any difference compared to if it was the first block in path two.

Also, don’t be afraid to go into the Legacy effects where you find all of the old Pod/DL4/MM4/etc models. They’re not as DSP heavy and still sound really good. I often gravitate towards the Legacy delays over the newer ones. It’s literally the same algorithms as the DL4, which over the years has become an iconic delay pedal on the level of the DM-2, Memory Man, Roland Space Echo, MXR Carbon Copy etc.

Im not sure that works I need amp and cab before 2 delays and a reverb.
I want the same signal going to each of those singlely, then pulled back together.
Each is getting a dry signal individually.