Floyd Rose w/o Locking Nut - anybody do this?

[Cagey]

Yesteday I took delivery of a really nice candy tangerine Strat body that is routed and drilled for a surface-mount Floyd. Lovely piece, although now I'm going to have to see if I can find a Catholic church so I can go to confession and receive absolution and the appropriate penance to do for such an act. I mean, a Floyd? On one of MY guitars? It just goes to show, boys and girls: read the buy/sell/trade postings carefully! <grin>

But, it's not the end of the world. After all, Joe Satriani uses Floyds and he's not only more than a little successful, he can wank and crank until hell won't have it. So, I'm pretty sure I'll live.

The thing is, I have this wonderful jet black ebony over bubinga Strat neck w/ stainless railroad ties on it that looks great on that body with that finish. Since it's such a nice neck, I really don't want to wreck it by putting a Floyd locking nut on there. The day may come where that neck gets used somewhere else, and it's highly unlikely there'll be a Floyd vibrato bridge involved. I've never had any tuning stability trouble using locking tuners and LSR nuts w/ Wilkinson vibrato bridges, so I seriously question the value of the Floyd locking nut. The thing is clearly an ugly and convoluted pain in the shorts, so what I want to know is if there's something I don't know about here. Is there a real reason to use those things? I can't imagine what it would be, but I don't want to commit to a solution that won't work, or only works poorly.

I mean, if I have to use it, then so be it. I just would rather not, so I want some comforting words from somebody who's either done it or knows enough to say whether or not it's ok.

 

[line6man]

I don't see a reason for a locking nut if you're not a heavy trem user. Just get some locking tuners.

 

[simple]

You can use a Floyd trem with the LSR roller nut. Mechanically it works fine together though it is not the dive bombing animal of the Floyd system. Without the locking nut the Floyd trem bridge works like any other trem with the added feature of fine tuners.

 

[MikeW]

I have a friend who's done exactly what Gregg suggests. He put a Temol-no in the back side of it to keep it blocked so that it only goes down and returns to tune. It's very stable that way and he can still do some pretty serious dive bombs with it.

 

[Cagey]

Thanks, guys. That's what I figured. I just wanted to be sure. You never know when there might be some hidden detail that comes back to bite you on the toe later.

 

[ORCRiST]

I humbly submit that if you're going to keep the bridge, you might as well not take the... what was that line Cagey?
Ah, yes, "the cheap, half-assed Rube Goldberg approach" and only use half of the whole, as it were.  :icon_tongue:

Yes, you don't need the locking nut. All the above suggestions and alternatives are perfectly valid... I would only
argue that if you're going to have the hunk of metal That Shall Not Be Named on the body, you do it right and pair it with
a locking nut as its intended to be used. Maybe then you can see what all the hub-bub is about!  :evil4:

D6, back me up here...

That being said, I love that color - and demand pics. You know the rules!

:rock-on:

ORC

 

[Strat Avenger]

I agree that if you're not a heavy trem user, the LSR nut in conjunction with locking tuners should be fine, and the fine tuners are a nice feature.
Heavy use ("dive bombs") requires a locking nut. That's just the way it is.
I'm not a heavy trem user at all, but I love the feel of the Floyd, and I like the fine tuners as well.

 

[Damon]

A decade or so back I had a Carvin with a floyd, locking tuners and a graphtech nut. Worked like a champ, even doing divebombs. It did have an angled headstock, though. Not sure how well that setup would do with a straight headstock. Seems like there might not be enough down force on the strings at the nut to hold them in place if you loose too much tension from using the floyd. If you're not planning on trying to play Van Halen note-for-note and either just pretend it's a hardtail or do basic vibrato and avoid drastic drops, I don't think you'll have any problems.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Even if you are a heavy trem user, if you have headstock that has a straight string path to the tuner posts, you can get away with using locking tuners.

The key is to have a very well setup instrument.  Part of this means you have a nut that is very well set up to minimize binding, or use a roller nut as Gregg suggested. 

When I worked at Warmoth, we had a beater soloist body with a strat neck, Schaller mini locking tuners, and a nicely set up white corian nut.  No matter how much Vai abuse I dished out to it, it would not go out of tune.

It also helps to have clean, well lubed bridge studs and knife edges.

If you have a headstock shape that does not have a straight string pull such as a Jackson, or Explorer as extreme examples, or even an LP or Variax, no matter how well you think you may have it set up, it the string will never return to the same location in the nut slot.

Strats, Tele's, & Firebird's are among the current Warmoth offerings that have a relatively straight string pull.

This all being said, the set up is very important one the contributing factors are in place.

I've played Ibanez Jem's & such as well as EB/MM Petrucci's that have both been set up flawlessly, & I've played some that could stay in tune to save your life.  The latter can usually be found at your local G.C. Franchise where both the instruments and the customers do not receive the best attention.

 

[Cagey]

Yes, you don't need the locking nut. All the above suggestions and alternatives are perfectly valid... I would only
argue that if you're going to have the hunk of metal That Shall Not Be Named on the body, you do it right and pair it with
a locking nut as its intended to be used. Maybe then you can see what all the hub-bub is about!  :evil4:

D6, back me up here...

That being said, I love that color - and demand pics. You know the rules!

If I encounter a decent neck on eBay for a good price, I may cut/drill it for a locking nut and install the whole shebang on this body just to say I did. But, as I mentioned earlier, this is a new ebony over bubinga part w/ SS frets. It's just too nice to put a Floyd nut on, especially if I don't really need it.

I've been doing floating Wilkinsons for years w/ LSRs and locking tuners, sometimes just with TUSQ nuts and lockers, both without string trees, and I can do some pretty heroic wang bar workouts with that setup and not suffer tuning instability. As long as you don't wrap the lockers with string the way you would with non-lockers, there's no excess string to relax and no slack to take up or cause hangs. So, I'm not gonna worry about it.

As for pics, yes. It does exist. These aren't very well done, but they'll give you an idea what the bubinga looks like against the tangerine...

I can't decide what color pickguard/hardware to go with. I suspect black across the board would look good, but I haven't made up my mind. That gold neck plate is just something I had laying around, I haven't ordered any Dangerous Neckwear for it yet. But, it shows how that contrasts with the tangerine, too.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

With the staggered Sperzel's, you likely will not need any string trees.  There is usually enough downward pressure to properly seat the string in the slot, even better on a tilt back headstock.

There's almost no way to put the PL tuners on a straight headstock without using string tree's.  The posts are just too dang tall.  PL,s do better on tilt backs.

 

[DangerousR6]

Yesteday I took delivery of a really nice candy tangerine Strat body that is routed and drilled for a surface-mount Floyd. Lovely piece, although now I'm going to have to see if I can find a Catholic church so I can go to confession and receive absolution and the appropriate penance to do for such an act. I mean, a Floyd? On one of MY guitars? It just goes to show, boys and girls: read the buy/sell/trade postings carefully! <grin>

But, it's not the end of the world. After all, Joe Satriani uses Floyds and he's not only more than a little successful, he can wank and crank until hell won't have it. So, I'm pretty sure I'll live.

The thing is, I have this wonderful jet black ebony over bubinga Strat neck w/ stainless railroad ties on it that looks great on that body with that finish. Since it's such a nice neck, I really don't want to wreck it by putting a Floyd locking nut on there. The day may come where that neck gets used somewhere else, and it's highly unlikely there'll be a Floyd vibrato bridge involved. I've never had any tuning stability trouble using locking tuners and LSR nuts w/ Wilkinson vibrato bridges, so I seriously question the value of the Floyd locking nut. The thing is clearly an ugly and convoluted pain in the shorts, so what I want to know is if there's something I don't know about here. Is there a real reason to use those things? I can't imagine what it would be, but I don't want to commit to a solution that won't work, or only works poorly.

I mean, if I have to use it, then so be it. I just would rather not, so I want some comforting words from somebody who's either done it or knows enough to say whether or not it's ok.

You still need a Homer neck plate.... :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

You still need a Homer neck plate.... :icon_biggrin:

Yeah, I really want to do one. But, now that I've got a whole series of them done the way I have been doing them, I'm reluctant to change. They're sorta expected.

 

[Damon]

You gonna leave that shielding in the control cavity or remove it on principle?

 

[Cagey]

Hehe! No, it'll stay. It's not in the way. As I've always said, it doesn't hurt anything. It just doesn't do any good.

 

[ORCRiST]

I can't decide what color pickguard/hardware to go with. I suspect black across the board would look good, but I haven't made up my mind. That gold neck plate is just something I had laying around, I haven't ordered any Dangerous Neckwear for it yet. But, it shows how that contrasts with the tangerine, too.

+100 on the all-black.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Cagey]

Schaller's got some interesting "vintage copper" finish parts that might be attractive on this body color...

Can't figure out what they cost or where to buy them, though.

 

[whitebison66]

I have a Soloist w/a Superwide neck, Floyd bridge and locking Schallers. It's damn near impossible to get it out of tune. But I still try!

 

[DangerousR6]

Duuuuuude, you gotta do this plate at some point, it just looks so kool...

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, save the file. We'll get back to it.