Fender stops offering Ashs bodies, will the same happen to Warmoth at some point

Jebberz

Jebberz

Senior Member
Messages
369
Hello,

I just read on a few different forums that Fender will cease offer Ash bodies, due difficulty to obtain a steady stock of wood because of the Emerald Ash Borer (we have the same problem here, the city had to chop a lot of ash tree to stop the spread, but it was somewhat unsuccessful).

Will the availability of Ash body could also be compromised for Warmoth at some point?
 
Nah, just plug the holes with Azurite Malachite dots and call it an upcharge.  We pay extra for wormy maple and rotting maple. 
 
Will this affect our choices at Warmoth ?  Swamp Ash is one of my favourites.

https://reverb.com/news/fender-will-no-longer-build-production-model-guitars-with-ash?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=blog-fenderash
 
I stopped using American ash and maple a long time ago. European ash, olivewood and maple, Japanese Ash, European walnut: those are now my to-go materials.

 
It should affect everyone that insists on using USA-grown ash, since the wood is currently under attack by a particular beetle that is pretty much destroying anyone's chances of getting a single usable plank out of a tree. As Orpheo says, though, ash from other parts of the world is still available and fine. (In many cases, lighter and more resonant, as well as prettier; the 'traditional' American woods were, quite frankly, only ever used by Fender in the first place because they were cheap to get in huge quantities.)
 
The emerald ash borer has definitely been a scourge.

I have just under an acre of property, (lower eastern NYS) about 13 of it is wooded, but I estimate that when we bought the property in 2008 we had about 9-12 (white) ash trees.
Some were already effected then and I had to have a very large one dropped. Looks like all but one or two are total goners now, and big dead one in the woods fell down in the storm on Monday.
I know the white Ash is not the same as the swamp ash, but it is still a very valuable hardwood. i know that people in the forestry industry in other parts of NYS and in Maine a=re VERY concerned about it.
It sucks. I wonder what these woods looked like centuries ago--with chestnut, ash, american elm etc really dominating the landscape around here.
 
My parents live downstate and the ash trees are gone.  Have you noticed the price of ash bats.  When I was kid ... cheap.  Now no kid could afford them.
 
Swamp Ash currently unavailable on the market. There are dealers with a bit of it here and there, but for intents and purposes you can't buy it. Guitar manufacturers are grabbing what little they can as fast as they can. Warmoth has been searching high and low for it, and has managed to secure some, but not a lot. That, together with what we have already, will get us through for a while a yet, but you should definitely expect Ash to become less prominent in the showcase over the next year. Once our stores are gone....that may be it for some time.


The two main factors for this are: Emerald Ash Borer and flooding.


I read in one place (don't have the link any more) that some are thinking the best strategy is to stockpile seeds now, let Swamp Ash go extinct, and then re-introduce it.


Life finds a way.....
 
Let it go extinct and then reintroduce it!  Crimminy Cricket!

I think we'll probably find a substitute.  There's no reason another common wood like Oak couldn't be used.  Yes, I know, it's no good for acoustics, but there's no reason it couldn't be used for a solid body.  Sure it would be a little heavy, but if you did it chambered, it would be alright.  And some say it would be bright, but some people like that.  And as to how pretty it is ... well I'm looking at my floor right now and the figuring looks as good as any piece of swamp ash.

I gave my swamp ash bodied tele to my nephew a couple months ago.  I hope he appreciates it.  Also the pups were hand wound by Becky Lawrence herself while Bill Lawrence was alive and kicking.  I'm going to miss that guitar.
 
Semi-hollow oak works for Brian May.

There definitely are many plentiful woods that can be used instead of ash (or any other wood). There really is very little reason to religiously stick to the small handful of woods that were used in the 50s. You can swap most species of ash for pine and, as far as a guitar is concerned, not tell any difference. Alder is considered a 'junk' wood here in the UK outside of the guitar world and can be replaced by half the species we have in our backyards.
Our common willow trees here are absolutely superb for guitars, both electric and acoustic. The grain is like a hybrid of swamp ash and oak (HERE is an image of what cheap willow looks like), but as pale as rock maple so you can dye or paint it any colours you like without worrying about the hue being influenced by the wood's colour. It's even possible to get flame-figured pieces; yup, flame on ash-like grain. It's lighter than swamp ash on average, generally around the weight of (decent) basswood. It's about as hard as 'northern' or 'baseball bat' ash, and in fact is the original wood used for cricket bats. Tonally it is also similar to northern ash but with a tiny touch more low-end resonance. Kind of like if you took swamp ash and turned both its high and low extremes up one notch, without changing the mids. It's used by several UK companies for electro-acoustics since its tone comes out totally balanced when hollow.
The only drawback is it's so tough, much like walnut it can be a bit of a pain to cut and shape.

I'm also hearing great things about bamboo. Certainly a sustainable source, very strong and very light weight, but I expect most people would only want it with solid colour finishes and I wouldn't want to guess what the tone is like as I've yet to play one myself, just heard someone playing a hollow one.
 
Did you guys see this:

https://youtu.be/IJC4Pf-wIsk

I also read (somewhere) that Fender has clarified their statement that they are moving away from Ash for the lower end lines but still plan to offer for higher end lines.
 
Ace Flibble said:
Semi-hollow oak works for Brian May.

There definitely are many plentiful woods that can be used instead of ash (or any other wood). There really is very little reason to religiously stick to the small handful of woods that were used in the 50s. You can swap most species of ash for pine and, as far as a guitar is concerned, not tell any difference. Alder is considered a 'junk' wood here in the UK outside of the guitar world and can be replaced by half the species we have in our backyards.
Our common willow trees here are absolutely superb for guitars, both electric and acoustic. The grain is like a hybrid of swamp ash and oak (HERE is an image of what cheap willow looks like), but as pale as rock maple so you can dye or paint it any colours you like without worrying about the hue being influenced by the wood's colour. It's even possible to get flame-figured pieces; yup, flame on ash-like grain. It's lighter than swamp ash on average, generally around the weight of (decent) basswood. It's about as hard as 'northern' or 'baseball bat' ash, and in fact is the original wood used for cricket bats. Tonally it is also similar to northern ash but with a tiny touch more low-end resonance. Kind of like if you took swamp ash and turned both its high and low extremes up one notch, without changing the mids. It's used by several UK companies for electro-acoustics since its tone comes out totally balanced when hollow.
The only drawback is it's so tough, much like walnut it can be a bit of a pain to cut and shape.

I'm also hearing great things about bamboo. Certainly a sustainable source, very strong and very light weight, but I expect most people would only want it with solid colour finishes and I wouldn't want to guess what the tone is like as I've yet to play one myself, just heard someone playing a hollow one.
Click to expand...

That image looks like nice wood grain!
 
I think it's not so much a matter of losing good stuff, as it is learning to get the most out of what is available. There are some types of wood that just haven't been explored properly because they didn't seem as "pretty" as others. Like oak, it was always avoided because of it's weight and it tends to have a plainer grain figure, so whether or not it's suitable sonically and tone wise hasn't really been well established. It may simply require being worked in a different way to be suitable. Tradition is good, but it sometimes tends to interfere with innovation.  :rock-on:
 
Willow? Willow is a super low density low strength for prone punky wood. You can break it with your hands.
 
Ric Moore said:
I also read (somewhere) that Fender has clarified their statement that they are moving away from Ash for the lower end lines but still plan to offer for higher end lines.
Click to expand...

I believe the original statement said that, but the internet changed it to moving away from it altogether.
 
swarfrat said:
Willow? Willow is a super low density low strength for prone punky wood. You can break it with your hands.
Click to expand...
I don't know what bizarro willow you've handled that you could make any kind of mark on it with bare hands. As I said, it's what cricket bats are made out of. And if you've ever felt a cricket ball and/or seen how fast bowlers whip those things into bats, you'd know that willow is taking more of a beating than any ash baseball bat ever has. The willow we get around the south of England has a janka hardness average of 1460lbs. The softest willows I'm aware of, that spring up Italy, tend to be around the 650-700lb mark, which is still about 50lbs or so harder than alder, which I'm sure nobody here would ever claim is too soft.

And bearing in mind that basswood averages in the range of 390-420lb, suffice to say even if you picked up a freakishly soft piece of willow, it's still tough enough for guitars.

And it's not like willows are the only tree (or grass, if someone wants to get pedantic in certain cases) that could be used in mass production but isn't just for the sake of 'tradition'; there really aren't that many woods out there that are wholly inappropriate for solid or chambered electric guitars. It's amazing to me that palm, for example, isn't used by anyone in any noticeable quantity, despite being harder and more stable than maple at the same weight and there being an absolute abundance of it the world. With palm oil thankfully starting to decline, there's a helluva lot of palm out there that need to be put to use so the rainforests they replaced can grow back. Those palm plantations would make a good pile of guitar necks.

The other week I saw an all-bamboo Telecaster. Chambered body, bolt-on neck and fretboard, all bamboo. Light, stiff, and entirely sustainable. If the same thing was made by Fender 50 years ago, it'd be all we'd use today. We'd probably be paying a huge premium for it, in fact.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
June Submissions - Guitar of the Month Contest (11 entries)
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
34K
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
C
Edenhaus Guitar - plagerism of Warmoth?
Replies
11
Views
6K
Kostas
Kostas
Back
Top