Fender Amps

[rauchman]

Greetings,

I'm currently using a Peavey Classic 50 head with upgraded tubes through a 2x12 with V30's, and a Boss ME-50 multieffects unit.  Archaic...I know

Looking to learn about Fender amps.  I'm kind of hot on one of their Tone Masters (Twin Reverb or Deluxe Reverb).  Aside from the TR having 2 speakers and higher output, are they the same amp?  Are they voiced differently? I've listed to countless youtube vid's but can't discern a tonal difference.

Is there a guide that lists out the differences of all Fender's amps?  I was on the Sweetwater site earlier, and all the different amp choices has me overwhelmed.

Deluxe Reverb
Custom Deluxe Reverb
Twin Reverb
Hot Rod Deville
Hot Rod Deluxe
Super Sonic

....and the list goes on.

 

[mayfly]

Well, Fender has a tonne of models available new.  Add to that all the used amps and there are hundreds of models out there.  I'll try to answer your questions then give you some advice.

1 - the Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb are quite different sounding and playing amps.  The pre-amp stage is similar (the Twin has a mid control on the effects channel, and sports bright switches), but they have vasty different power stages (as you noted already) which shapes the character.  What this means is that the Deluxe will be plenty loud for a regular club gig, where Twin will cut your freaking head off.  The Deluxe, if set up right*, will have a fairly good overdrive when pushed.  The Twin will stay clean forever and ever and ever and ....  oh, and it's stupid heavy  .  The lack of a mid control and bright switches on the Deluxe is bothersome to some, but the amp can be modded to get around this.**  If I were asked to choose between those two, I'd pick the Deluxe all day long without a second thought.

2 - there are guides to fender amps, but they are big ass volumes.  I've got the last edition of Aspen Pitman's The Tube Amp Book, which is a really big book with lots of information.  It does not even cover all the fender models, although it is an interesting read.  There are books that only cover the blackface era, for example.  It's just a really deep subject.

3 - Because there are just so many Fender amps out there, it's probably best to think about your typical music situation and style.  Once you have that, then we can start narrowing things down between, say, a Super or a Blues Jr, or a Pro Jr, or a Tweed Deluxe or...


* - To set up a deluxe, I like to remove the bright cap from the effects channel, increase the grid stopper resistance to the output tubes, and add about 10K as a grid stopper to the input of the PI.  I also like to link the normal and effects channel (then you get effects on both) which allows you to use an AB box for different volume / sounds.  Sometimes it can benefit from a speaker that's a bit less, er, spikey 

** - depending on the exact model you can add a push-pull pot to act as a bright switch.  You can also increase the midrange resistor to give the amp more mids.  All of these mods are a lot easier when you are working on an original black face or silver face (that is, one that does NOT use printed circuit boards).

 

[Kostas]

You can find info on their classic models here: http://fenderguru.com/amps/

Personally I wouldn't go for a new Fender amp because some 60's and most of the 70's models cost less and they are easier to service being PTP. Some people believe Silverface models are inferior but I don't, I had both and I'm not convinced about it. I bought my Bassman 10+ years ago and while I was doing my search I read some horror stories about the Hot Rod line and several burnt PCB's. I think the Hot Rod Deluxe is the amp with most sales ever but it has far from a perfect build. 

If you want to buy used you should read first and learn the differences between Tweed, Brown, Blond, Black & Silver. Sometimes there are differences between color like the Silverface ultralinear models.

The first you should decide if you want a clean amp or with a dirty channel too, no vintage amp can give you high gain, some will distort if you put the volume on ten but you need an attenuator for that.

 

[mayfly]

Yup.  Tell us what you want to sound like, and how loud you want to be when sounding like that, and then we can take it from there.

 

[Logrinn]

What this means is that the Deluxe will be plenty loud for a regular club gig, where Twin will cut your freaking head off.  The Deluxe, if set up right*, will have a fairly good overdrive when pushed.  The Twin will stay clean forever and ever and ever and ....  oh, and it's stupid heavy  .

I had a Twin for several years and got exceptional great sound from it.
The recipe; everything (but the bass control) on full!
Wicked sound and actually as far away from clean as possible. Great dirt tone.
Granted, I’m suffering from tinnitus now and it really was stupid heavy.
But, no, it doesn’t stay clean forever.  :icon_jokercolor:

There’s of course also a difference between the original tube versions of these amps and the new Tone Masters, which are not tube.
Many say they sound spookingly similar and I haven’t tried one, so I can’t comment on that. But the main difference imho is that the old tube amps are serviceable, while I’m guessing the new ones are less so.

Food for thought

 

[mayfly]

But the main difference imho is that the old tube amps are serviceable, while I’m guessing the new ones are less so.

This ^^^

Having repaired loads of modern amps, I can agree that the older ones actually are truly serviceable.  Any modern amp that uses printed circuit boards (PCB) takes an incredible amount of time to service.  This is because you need to remove the PCB to do anything*, which takes a tremendous amount of bench time.  It seriously adds about $100 - $150 to any repair.  If the amp is really tricky and computerized, then sometimes parts are not available.  And this is on an amp that is only a few years old. :doh:  This translates to a modern complex amp becoming a door stop very fast, where as an old amp will keep going and seemingly last forever.  Ever wonder why you don't see that many Red Knob Fenders out there?  It's because if they break they are often not worth the time to repair.

Over the years this has become my engineering design philosophy:  make it so it's repairable, and it will have a long life.  If you don't, then sooner rather than later it will be come landfill.  :-\

* the older MESA boogies are an exception as they have the PCB foil side up, which allows you to replace components without pulling the board.  Smart design those boogies...

 

[swarfrat]

I'll throw this out too. I know many hold Fender as the gold standard clean tone. And the more I mess with amps, and my models of said amps, and try these things the more I realize: Fender is just one and a quirky one at that. Especially their speakers.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/1--oZ6Io03Q[/youtube]

 

[Rick]

@ Mayfly
I want to sound like an old blues guy playing at a farmer bar where I'm next to a window.  The combo is pointed inward.  People are dancing in the living room, about 10 or so, and the guys on the front porch sitting next to the top opening fridge can hear me, just outside the window and they can converse.  What amp should I use?  :help:

 

[mayfly]

@ Mayfly
I want to sound like an old blues guy playing at a farmer bar where I'm next to a window.  The combo is pointed inward.  People are dancing in the living room, about 10 or so, and the guys on the front porch sitting next to the top opening fridge can hear me, just outside the window and they can converse.  What amp should I use?  :help:

I'd be tempted to use a Blues Jr...  or a Pro Jr if I didn't like reverb.

 

[rauchman]

Yup.  Tell us what you want to sound like, and how loud you want to be when sounding like that, and then we can take it from there.

First off, thanks for everyone's info!

I'm looking for something that is dual use for home playing and live, for volume.
Want something that is easily transportable....light
Tonally, want something that goes from clean with lots of headrooom to blow your head off gain, using pedals if needed

I've tried the BluGuitar Mercury 1 Amp.  On paper this is the perfect amp for me, with great cleans and different channels of gain.  Pedal board sized amp, wtih a lot of flexibility.  I just didn't like the overall tones so much, at least going through V30's, and their was a residual distortion coming through the clean channel.

 

[mayfly]

I'd say the Deluxe reverb is your amp.  You will need pedals in front of it to get gain out of it at an friendly volume though.  BTW: IMHO you will at least need to remove the bright cap on the effects channel...

 

[Rick]

Mayfly ... Thanks!  Curious ... any thoughts about the fender tone master?  It's a solid state combo.  I've never played one, but it's under 25 Lbs ...

 

[rauchman]

I'd say the Deluxe reverb is your amp.  You will need pedals in front of it to get gain out of it at an friendly volume though.  BTW: IMHO you will at least need to remove the bright cap on the effects channel...

Thanks appreciate the info.  I'm more curious about the Tone Master series due to the weight, power scaling and XLR out.  Any thoughts?

 

[mayfly]

Gentlemen, sadly I know almost nothing of the tone master series of amps.  If you are going to consider them, then I think you need to play through one and then trust your years.  Note that If something goes wrong on them, chances are that they won't be repairable.  Just sayn' 

 

[Kostas]

I'll throw this out too. I know many hold Fender as the gold standard clean tone. And the more I mess with amps, and my models of said amps, and try these things the more I realize: Fender is just one and a quirky one at that. Especially their speakers.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/1--oZ6Io03Q[/youtube]

All the classic amps (Fender, Marshall, Hiwatt, Vox) have exceptional clean tone, I like 'em all and can't choose between them. Those who think Fender is the way to go for clean tone should try the others too. Also the term "Fender clean tone" is vague, for example Tweed sounds nothing like Blackface.

BTW, Fender & Celestion make a great pair. Only recently Fender started using Celestion speakers in their amps but in my experience they are a great match and by Celestion I don't mean V30's, they have many different models.

Don't forget, the speaker is the mouth of the amp...of the whole system actually. The signal from your pickups, pedals and amp ends up in the speaker so pay attention to it.

 

[swarfrat]

Yeah, if I've learned anything watching his channel it's that Johan + any given speaker sounds like Johan + that speaker through almost literally any amp ever made.

 

[Seamas]

When I go to my local (used) guitar shop they frequently have up to 4-5 Twin Reverbs --usually silverface but some blackface.
When they get a Deluxe Reverb of the same era, it is usually priced a couple hundred bucks HIGHER and sells quick.


They had a tweed Deluxe there for a nanosecond. The sales guys said it was the best amp he's ever played.

I have a Hot Rod Deluxe and yeah, it isn't nearly as serviceable as the older (or handwired) Fenders.
The clean channel is really nice. The drive is yucky--I never use it. It is plenty loud and they are really reasonably priced.

 

[mayfly]

I have a Hot Rod Deluxe and yeah, it isn't nearly as serviceable as the older (or handwired) Fenders.
The clean channel is really nice. The drive is yucky--I never use it. It is plenty loud and they are really reasonably priced.

Those amps are not too bad.  Parts are typically available.  The PCBs are annoying, but the amp can be fixed.  It just takes longer. 

It's an interesting tradeoff between purchase price and price of ownership (repairs).  The more expensive hand wired ones will have a larger purchase price, but a lower price of ownership.  For the cheaper ones it's reversed.

 

[rauchman]

Well......went a totally other route on this

Just ordered a used EVH 50w 5150 III 6L6 tubed Gen 2 head in white.  Did a lot of research, and this seems more in my wheelhouse than the Fender.  Hopefully, it lives up to expectations.  if not, thankfully Guitar Center has their 45 day return policy.

 

[mayfly]

Cool man!  Let us know how it sounds.  Always been a fan of Peavey.