Evolution of the English language in my lifetime

[stratamania]

"Someone forgot their guitar." 

That is an interesting one, as in this case the someone, is not known to be male or female and is a correct dictionary usage. Though of course the more broad use of "their" would be used to refer to possessions of a group.

Have they brought their towels?

 

[Kublai]

Spelling, punctuation and grammar errors used to drive me nuts. Now, after reading texts, message boards, and online gaming chats for years it doesn't bother me. I can translate. I understand that official documentation requires proper and precise language.

 

[Seamas]

It was a time when spelling was not exactly a "settled science".

This is especially true of spelling of surnames.
People (American)  will often say that their family name "got changed at Ellis Island", when in fact if the name was changed by some clerk, it was always done at the port of departure. The people at immigration just copied from the ship manifest.
That said, there is a huge change that great-great grandpa had less than rudimentary spelling skills and had little clue how to spell the last name.

 

[Seamas]

There used to be a NPR show in this area where once a month linguist Patricia T. O'Connor would answer questions about grammar, word origins, and idioms.
Very fascinating.
She has a pretty good blog
https://www.grammarphobia.com/

One thing about English grammar is that quite a number of "rules" were just put in place by academics who thought it was important to place French and Latin rules on English (which is more Germanic). The whole notion that one should never end a sentence with a preposition is one of these bogus rules that make no sense.

Also: I find it funny that perfectly good English (Anglo-Saxon derived) words are considered vulgar "curse words", but the French-derived alternatives are perfectly acceptable in polite society.

 

[BigSteve22]

.....The whole notion that one should never end a sentence with a preposition is one of these bogus rules that make no sense.

That's one rule I've never relied upon!  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[stratamania]

.....The whole notion that one should never end a sentence with a preposition is one of these bogus rules that make no sense.

That's one rule I've never relied upon!  :icon_jokercolor:

Let's have some examples then of prepositions at the end of a sentence. Perhaps they are really postpositions.

 

[swarfrat]

"Up with which I will not put"

 

[stratamania]

"Up with which I will not put"

That reminds me of Yoda. Does anyone actually speak like that?

 

[Rick]

While not related to our lifetimes remember, before the Norman conquest, the English had generic builders, afterwards, they had architects and contractors, the English had houses, but the French had Maisons, or Mansions, before the Normans there were no Lawyers, but afterwards there were attorneys and advocates, I guess Lawyers came later which is based on an Anglo-Saxon word ...

All in all, life before the Normans was pretty basic and the language reflects that

Makes sense to me that the hoity toity words would be derived from the French and Latin, and the everyday words would be Anglo Saxon based.

 

[swarfrat]

"Up with which I will not put"

That reminds me of Yoda. Does anyone actually speak like that?

Supposedly, Winston Churchill had an editor ding him on ending a sentence with a preposition. That was his response, "That is something up with which I will not put" ("put up with" being an idiom which breaks this rule.) It was intentionally obtuse to demonstrate the absurdity of the rule.

Kids these days... not just grammar. History too!

 

[stratamania]

Well, now you have put it in context with the rest of the sentence though it is missing the errant pedantry I see what you are getting at.

 

[bagman67]

I the full sentence read something like:


"That is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."


Gotta love a guy who can drop "arrant" and "pedantry" in a single sentence. 

 

[stratamania]

Yes, it should be arrant pedantry.

I was playing with the phrase as it was missed in swarfrat's reference and made it errant pedantry.

 

[DaveT]

As an Anglo-Saxon living in Yorkshire I find it immensely irritating that everybody else can use their language to the full, yet I cannot.
All those 'rude' words.
Meanwhile it seems all languages are being dumbed down. Being both Francophile and Francophone I have some sympathy with the French and their attempts to expunge assorted anglicisms from their language. 'Le weekend' anyone?

The mixing of the Angles and the Saxons led to the abandonment of 'gender' in what was to become English. Probably a good thing. It vexes me that different languages can't agree on which words are feminine which are masculine, and god help us which are neuter.

I despise vile Americanisms but was disturbed  to discover that 'Fall' being American for Autumn is actually olde-english that we have moved on from. I blame the Victorians!

 

[aarontunes]

I'm glad you guys have already discussed the Winston Churchill quote. Love that one!


Other language changes in my lifetime:

• People have stopped resisting "ain't", and now accept it as a word.
• The the term "small little" has come into wide usage. I guess it's no more redundant a phrase than "teeny tiny". Still weird.

And since this thread has mostly become a rant on the misuse of language, one thing that really grinds my gears is ambiguity in writing. I see it all the time. An example off the top of my head: "The ladies spent the day visiting museums. They were very old."


Drives me nuts!

 

[ByteFrenzy]

It vexes me that different languages can't agree on which words are feminine which are masculine, and god help us which are neuter.

Dutch is hilarious in that sense... formally, small animals are feminine, and large animals are male, whatever their actual gender. You have to refer to the male mouse as 'her' and the female elephant as 'him'. Not sure how much the rule is actually known and followed though.

 

[Cagey]

I dislike people using "UP" as a verb, as in "I upped the temperature".

 

[aarontunes]

I dislike people using "UP" as a verb, as in "I upped the temperature".

Actually, that is a great observation. In our lifetimes it has become common to use nouns as verbs...especially product names.


John Photoshopped the picture.
Sue Googled the showtimes.




The Aaron Warmothed his guitar, perhaps?

 

[Cagey]

That's true. But, the "Google" and "Photoshop" evolutions seem to make sense to me, while I don't think I'll ever get used to hearing about "upping" something.

 

[swarfrat]

It vexes me that different languages can't agree on which words are feminine which are masculine, and god help us which are neuter.

Dutch is hilarious in that sense... formally, small animals are feminine, and large animals are male, whatever their actual gender. You have to refer to the male mouse as 'her' and the female elephant as 'him'. Not sure how much the rule is actually known and followed though.

My mom calls her dog he/she depending on the gender of the previous pet. If the last dog was a he, the next one will be a 'he' regardless of it being female. The next one will then be a 'she', be it male or female.