Double expanding truss rods

[Zionplayer]

Can anyone give me a primer on Warmoths double expanding truss rod?
How to adjust the secondary screw to lower the peghead end to facilitate lower string action.
The action is simply too high on my new build.
I have added relief using the main (?) truss rod, but no help.... :icon_scratch:

Thanks....

 

[GoDrex]

Won't adding relief raise your action? Making the neck straighter will generally make the action lower.

 

[GoDrex]

are you using this?

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/necks/necks.cfm?fuseaction=sideadjust

 

[tfarny]

Zionplayer, no offense but what you said clearly shows you don't know what you're doing wrt setup.
Option 1: Take it in to a shop before you screw it up.
Option 2: Read up on setups and the effects of relief etc.

Primer on Warmoth's truss rod: There's only one adjustment, the screw could be on the heel, the peghead end, or the side depending on what kind of neck you bought.

Basics: You don't adjust the truss rod to lower the action, that's not what truss rods are for. You adjust the truss rod, after making sure the neck is fitted right, and BEFORE even worrying about the action.
Put the Capo on fret 1, just in front oft the nut. Then with your finger, fret the high e at the highest fret. Now measure the distance from fret top to string at fret 8 or so. Should be some tiny bit of relief, around 0.010 - the thickness of a high E string. Some people like no relief, just straight, others may want .013 or so.
Giving the neck relief ALLOWS you to lower the action at the BRIDGE without buzzing, it does NOT 'lower the peghead' to facilitate lower string action, in fact you might say it 'raises the peghead' although this is the wrong way to express it.
Read more on this board or at: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenSetup/TrussRods/TrussRodAdj/tradj.html which is written for acoustic players but the same ideas apply.

 

[dbw]

Hmm... :icon_scratch:  I think you are under the impression that there are two trussrods... one controlling each end of the neck.  This is not so, it works basically like an ordinary trussrod as far as adjustments go... tightening the truss rod pushes up on the middle of the neck, resulting in a less curved neck.  Maybe you are being confused by the side adjuster... the side adjuster and the heel adjuster don't do two different things... they do the same thing two different ways.

I'd say take it to a shop (not a Guitar Center) and have them set it up for you... you will save yourself a lot of trouble, and if the guy is cool he'll let you watch and explain what's going on. :icon_thumright:

 

[Zionplayer]

No offense taken "TFARNY".....but.....

The neck had zero relief after building and tuning to pitch. The action was too high...higher at the 22nd fret than the nut. I manually pulled back on the headstock slightly and gently to observe that the action lowered across the neck.. I surmised that a little relief might help...but before I did....
I lowered the saddles till no buzz @ every fret while maintaining neck radius relationship.
I then loosened main truss rod a quater turn, tuned to pitch, got the relief I was after and this helped a little with the high action, but still significantly higher at the higher frets than the nut/lower frets...

I stopped there and wrote this post, inquiring as to the relationship between my issues, and the double expanding truss rod.

Thanks(btw) for the Warmoth link...that helped alot

Shimming the neck has occured to me, but with little experience, I thought that I might be wise to try and glean some valuable insights from experienced builders
like yourselves.

As a final resort, I will "take it to a shop"...but I will do all that I can before I give up on doing this myself.....

Meanwhile, "A Little help".........

 

[GoDrex]

The neck had zero relief after building and tuning to pitch. The action was too high...higher at the 22nd fret than the nut. I manually pulled back on the headstock slightly and gently to observe that the action lowered across the neck.. I surmised that a little relief might help...

pulling back on the neck is like straightening it - that's not relief - you would tighten the truss rod to make it more straight - - relief would be loosening it...

 

[Zionplayer]

    "  pulling back on the neck is like straightening it - that's not relief - you would tighten the truss rod to make it more straight - - relief would be loosening it..."

This I know 'G'.....
I included the info to illustrate that the action is higher at the high end than the nut end.


Might shimming help?

 

[tfarny]

All guitars have higher action at the 22nd fret than at the nut, it's unavoidable to a certain extent. Here are some more sites with setup tips. Gibson recommends 1/64 at fret 1 and 3/64 at fret 12 on the treble side.
http://www.gibson.com/magazines/amplifier/1997/10/tipfile.html
http://www.fender.com/support/stratocaster.php
Your post still doesn't make sense though. Giving relief to a neck (loosening the truss rod) doesn't lower the action at all.
You said "I lowered the saddles till no buzz @ every fret while maintaining neck radius relationship." - lowering the saddles lowers your action and after some point you begin to get buzz, until at some point the buzzing becomes unacceptable. And don't worry too much about the 'neck radius relationship' - at first just get each string the lowest action that you can without too much buzzing. Done properly, you'll end up with an approximation of the neck radius but a bit higher on the bass strings.

if 1) your neck is properly seated and 2) your neck is/was perfectly straight as you say, you should be able to lower the saddles so far that the strings are resting on the frets, then you could start raising the saddles until your guitar becomes playable. You don't adjust neck relief in order to get low action. Instead, proper neck relief allows you to lower the action a bit more (at the saddles) without buzzing.

If you have a real problem with action, I suspect either your neck or your bridge is improperly aligned. Best to take it in to a shop or post pictures and take measurements and post them up here.