Convince me (noisleless vs. old-school)

[spauldingrules]

For my new tele, should I go noiseless or true single coil?  I am considering the Rio Grande tallboys or dimarzio areas or duncan stk noiseless.  Also the Fender Samarium Cobalts or duncan vintage singles.

Opinions?  How noisy are the singles in a tele?  Less noisy than a strat?

 

[jackthehack]

Hmmm, let's see... Most of the music you've heard from Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Rory Gallagher, Buddy Guy, John Mayer, David Gilmour, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Roy Buchanan, Mark Knopfler, Jeff Beck, etc, etc., etc., was recorded with those nasty old "noisy" pickups...

 

[Shmoopie]

none of the above!  go with rio grande dirty harrys, with a push pull vol to turn on the neck or bridge pup, and a push pull tone to put every thing in series. 


i won't take no for an answer. 

 

[spauldingrules]

They also recorded on vintage tape and through vintage amps in vintage studios with vintage light fixtures and vintage audiences.  I have a monitor and a pc 3 feet from where I record.  I just want someone to tell me that they really love me, and that they aren't as noisy as my old strat pickups which were a NIGHTMARE.  I do like playing with a bit of compressor, which makes it worse.

 

[jackthehack]

"I have a monitor and a pc 3 feet from where I record."

Turn it off or move it

 

[spauldingrules]

well, i record straight to the pc.  i guess i could use magic and make the pc work without being on.  i should have thought of this sooner.  duh me.

 

[jackthehack]

This would be more fun were you capable of sarcasm and wit simultaneously....

That being said; what are you using for a system? Most "off the shelf" MS-Windows based computers are not really suitable for use as PC based recording system due the amount of RF they radiate, any FCC Class B affixed thereto, that only guarantees that it won't interfere with TV/Radio reception.

1.) NSA "tempested" class/certified computer cases emit near 0 RF, but are typically cost prohibitive unless you can find govt. surplus gear.  You can buy higher quality cases that don't quite meet that standard, but are a lot better than your typical HP/Dell/whatever home machines for less, or get some RF shielding tape a grade or two higher than what is being sold for guitar cavities and disassemble your PC and better shield it with that.
2.) Often on less expensive off the shelf computers, the cheap ass CPU cooling fans and/or power supply fans often throw off more RF than their high speed microprocessors; you can Google around and find better lower RF emitting units for reasonable prices.
3.) Every cable used to connect ANYTHING should be higher end, seriously shielded cabling.
4.) Use isolation, i.e., get LONGER shielded cabling and move any instruments that will pick up RF radiation into another room while recording.
5.) Much as I hate Steve Jobs's pompous ass and think Apple hardware is a ripoff, especially since they moved to Intel hardware; their gear is about the only reasonably priced off the shelf gear (MacMini's can be had around $500) that has low enough RF emissions to use without any issues I'm aware of.

 

[DiMitriR33]

you could go over kill and take jack's advice, OR you can get a flat screen lcd, i play single coil equipped guitars at my desk with a my CPU case on the floor and noise is minimal, and my case is open at all times, the prossesor runs hot and i'd rather spend my money on a new warmoth instead of a bigger heatsink and noisier fan.

and many new noiseless designs sound every bit as good as the vintage stuff. don't expect zero noise though, humbuckers only work if both coils get the same intensity of noise so at certain angle you might get some buzzing coming through.

i just recieved some bill lawrence singles for my strat, haven't put'em in yet but i'll let ya know how they sound. i can vouch for fender vintage noiseless but haven't tried the samarium cobalt. i know they were designed by bill lawrence so that's a good sign.

 

[spauldingrules]

So you like the Vintage Noiseless?  They are cheaper than the others - I can get a new tele set for $99.

 

[Uff-Da]

I can't remember exactly who pointed me in this direction (jackthehack?), but look at having Bill Lawrence wind you the noiseless pickups for your Tele.  I have a set coming -- so sometime in the future I could give you some better feedback, but I like what I have read.  Here is some info, and it points you to his website. 

http://guitarsbyfender.yuku.com/topic/3033/t/Tele-amp-Strat-L-280-s-L-290-s-options-characteristics.html

 

[DiMitriR33]

So you like the Vintage Noiseless?  They are cheaper than the others - I can get a new tele set for $99.

i installed them in a friends squire. or i should say i fixed the wiring he messed up. that's where the confusion started, not knowing he got a whole kit i didn't understand why he had 1-meg pots on the tone. so i changed them to what made more sence to me finding out latter that they were actually correct. i also changed the cap to a much larger one. so in the end i'm sure it sounded different than it was supposed too but the end result was very nice. not vintage sounding but still very nice. i know others on this site have used them and had great things too say as well.

the price is hard too beat but the lawrence pups i bought were cheap too. $128 including shipping. it was to an apo address so i don't know how that'll compare to your shipping. i'll tell ya when i install them how they sound.

the dimarzio's seem to have about the most authentic sounding vintage tone that i've heard but that's just in sound clips.

 

[spauldingrules]

I went with the Duncan noiseless STKs.  I figure at least they will keep their resale value if I don't like them.

 

[llama]

I have a telecaster with trad single coils (52 Fender RI) and a Warmoth tele with a Fender Noiseless pickup set. The noiseless pickups are much quieter when home recording. The best thing I found for reducing computer generated guitar hum was to swap my old style monitor for a flat screen one.

 

[ognolman]

Most "off the shelf" MS-Windows based computers are not really suitable for use as PC based recording system due the amount of RF they radiate, any FCC Class B affixed thereto, that only guarantees that it won't interfere with TV/Radio reception.

If my PC is adding noise to recordings I can't detect it, but I can easily detect the noise added by my high-end tube preamp.  I think this whole "PCs don't make good DAWs" things is nothing more than propaganda.  I've done a lot of bass recordings on my PC that I sent to a guy using a Mac for mixdown and mastering and he never complained about my recordings being noisy.

But, as to the topic at hand, I have a set of stock Fender samarium cobalts in my MIM MIDI strat and I think they are fantastic.  I've let some very experienced players borrow it from time to time and everyone seems genuinely impressed with the sound.  Very quiet but a sweet tone that I really like.

JBD

 

[stubhead]

Fender noiseless and cobalts are Bill Lawrence designs, just with Fender's added markup.... :laughing7: Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck have been using the noiseless pickups on their signature guitars for a long time now, ever since they came out (1994? or so). An impressively large number of people are playing Clapton signature Strats, for the pickups and the active mid boost - Pete Townshend, Mike Kennealy, Mike Rutherford, Steve Winwood etc. I'm pretty sure they can get Fender to size their necks & paint them pretty too... :icon_tongue:

If you play in bars with fluorescent lights, you have to do something, or else tell the bar owner to turn off his lights because they make your equipment malfunction - that goes over well.

 

[jimh]

The Clapton and Beck sig models were Lace Sensors were'nt they?  I know they use the Noiseless now though.....

 

[DiMitriR33]

The Clapton and Beck sig models were Lace Sensors were'nt they?  I know they use the Noiseless now though.....

they were until they discovered the vintage noiseless. they switched the sig models over to the noiseless maybe late 90's or early 2000's i think. maybe it was earlier than that but i remember seeing some clapton sig models with lace pup's back in middle school when i started playing and that was in 99. lace sensors were great in the 90's, very high tech but they just lack something.

 

[DiMitriR33]

Most "off the shelf" MS-Windows based computers are not really suitable for use as PC based recording system due the amount of RF they radiate, any FCC Class B affixed thereto, that only guarantees that it won't interfere with TV/Radio reception.

If my PC is adding noise to recordings I can't detect it, but I can easily detect the noise added by my high-end tube preamp.  I think this whole "PCs don't make good DAWs" things is nothing more than propaganda.  I've done a lot of bass recordings on my PC that I sent to a guy using a Mac for mixdown and mastering and he never complained about my recordings being noisy.

But, as to the topic at hand, I have a set of stock Fender samarium cobalts in my MIM MIDI strat and I think they are fantastic.  I've let some very experienced players borrow it from time to time and everyone seems genuinely impressed with the sound.  Very quiet but a sweet tone that I really like.

JBD

watch out there jack is an engineer for a major cell phone company or something, FCC regulations and RF emission are his thing.

ok my take on it is that a pc wouldn't be good for a professional studio, now if you want a little home recording setup it'll do just fine, the big CRT monitors produce the most noise that i can tell. and with these new intel macs an apple wouldn't be a bad idea, they can run windows if you like your pc.

 

[jackthehack]

Most "off the shelf" MS-Windows based computers are not really suitable for use as PC based recording system due the amount of RF they radiate, any FCC Class B affixed thereto, that only guarantees that it won't interfere with TV/Radio reception.

If my PC is adding noise to recordings I can't detect it, but I can easily detect the noise added by my high-end tube preamp.  I think this whole "PCs don't make good DAWs" things is nothing more than propaganda.  I've done a lot of bass recordings on my PC that I sent to a guy using a Mac for mixdown and mastering and he never complained about my recordings being noisy.

But, as to the topic at hand, I have a set of stock Fender samarium cobalts in my MIM MIDI strat and I think they are fantastic.  I've let some very experienced players borrow it from time to time and everyone seems genuinely impressed with the sound.  Very quiet but a sweet tone that I really like.

JBD

Not propaganda; many lower end PCs WILL output enough RF to add audible noise to your recording; I did not say or imply that ALL did, but rather listed some things you could try to do to remediate the problem IF you had one.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have an older computer running a DAW and a tube amp that I play through.  First up, the amp.  Quiet.  I built it and followed all of the rules on how to prevent it from making noise.  I know CB is the King on all things tube amps, and that poking around in one is extremely dangerous (it can kill you quite easily) but that being said, proper shielding and wiring of the signal to the first tube and to and from the gain knobs will significantly reduce the noise.  I know that modern amps with PCB's do not let you chop stick the wires around to reduce noise in your amp, but properly shielded wires going to and from the initial stages of the amp really quite things down.  It really can make a vast improvement if you just keep the length of the wire short and move those things a bit to reduce noise.  Still, it would be worth having CB's thoughts on keeping things quiet with regards to tube amps.

The monitor I have on my old computer is an old CRT and is noisy.  But, only if I play near it.  You can hear the noise increase as you get about 3-5 feet from it.  So, I don't play near it.  The simplest method I use to get it to sound decent is to record with a mic about 2-3 feet from the speaker cabinet and have the Low Z cable from the mic go across the room to the DAW.  Then I have my 15 foot guitar cable and I stand else where than right between all of the electronic mess.  It seems to work.  Even without noiseless pickups, but with some noisy crappy as old Tele replacement pickups.

The final thing I would suggest is to use shielded wire to wire your guitar with.  I got mine at Hoffman Amps for $0.32 a foot.  Dirt cheap and you do not have to buy conductive paint or that foil stuff.  Oh yeah, it works really good.

To review, proper wiring on the input and gain stages of the tube amp really helps, Don't stand in the electronic noise warzone, and shielded wire in your guitar helps.
Patrick