Cagey: new questions...sort of.

[Mnemoflame]

I apologize for the repost.  Having rewired a Telecaster twice (using the diagram below) since I was here last, I've gained frustration, education, and some different questions.

I did two things I did differently from the pictured Tele Wiring Diagram

• Ran the cap from the indicated lug on the tone pot, through the ground lug of the volume pot, to a soldering lug on the bushing of the volume pot
• Spliced some groups of grounds together (bare from pickups, bridge + shield paint)
• Ran all grounds to the volume pot bushing lug then one from that to the tone pot's bushing lug, and from there to the ground ring of the jack

Parts List

• Bourns 1M volume pot (audio taper)
• Bourns 250 push-pull tone pot (audio taper)
• Orange Drop .022uf 600v capacitor
• Tritan 3-way switch
• DiMarzio Tone Zone T bridge pickup (rail type humbucker)
• DiMarzio Chopper neck pickup (rail type humbucker)

The end result is that the scheme seems to work but the middle position on the three-way switch (neck + bridge) is off unless the tone pot is pulled for splitting, when split the neck and bridge individually are louder than when combined, and there is a buzz/hum when I'm not touching a metal part of the guitar (touching the pot shaft works, as does touching the strings).  Any ideas, based on the diagram, how to fix these problems?  At this point, I will probably have to do some splicing of pickup wires because of how badly I screwed them up that isn't too big of a deal.

The experience raises concerns for me on the upcoming Strat (Strat Wiring Diagram)

• Is running the cap from tone pot lug to volume pot ground lug to ground lug on volume pot bushing a bad idea?
• Would it be prudent to trim the copper shielding tape away from the tone pot bushing so that only one soldering lug contacts/grounds it?
• On the mini-switches, do I actually need to add the diagonal wire on the lugs or is that connection already part of the switch?
• Is there any good reason that the bare wire from each pickup has to go to a pot ground instead of just being soldering with the red or white wire to the mini-switches?
• Any reason not to use solid core wire? (I've seen Cagey use solid wire, so this might be a dumb question)
• If I wanted to add this to the guitar, could I just insert it between the tone pot bushing lug and the jack?

Strat Parts List (resistor and extra cap for the above-linked safety circuit)

• Bourns 1M volume pot (audio taper)
• Bourns 250k Push-Pull tone pot (audio taper)
• Orange Drop .022uf capacitors
• 220k Resistor
• Solder Lug Washers
• Chome On-On-On Mini Switch
• 5-Way Switch
• Electrosocket

 

[Cagey]

The things you did differently shouldn't affect anything.

The reason it doesn't work is the wiring diagram appears to be for pickups from two different manufacturers, at least judging by the wire color codes. The coil cut switch is likely shorting out everything when it's on. Rather than have the red and green wires from the neck pickup tied on there, it should be the black and white lines.

•     Is running the cap from tone pot lug to volume pot ground lug to ground lug on volume pot bushing a bad idea?

Doesn't matter. It just needs to get to ground.

•     Would it be prudent to trim the copper shielding tape away from the tone pot bushing so that only one soldering lug contacts/grounds it?

Doesn't matter. It all just needs to get to ground.

•     On the mini-switches, do I actually need to add the diagonal wire on the lugs or is that connection already part of the switch?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. But, unless you have a schematic of the switch or have wrung it out with a continuity tester, you can't know.

•     Is there any good reason that the bare wire from each pickup has to go to a pot ground instead of just being soldering with the red or white wire to the mini-switches?

It needs to be grounded. Pick targets of opportunity.

•   Any reason not to use solid core wire? (I've seen Cagey use solid wire, so this might be a dumb question)

Doesn't matter. Sometimes it's convenient, other times not so much. It won't have any effect on the sound.

•   If I wanted to add this to the guitar, could I just insert it between the tone pot bushing lug and the jack?

It's of questionable value. I don't do it, and I come from an era when that sort of danger was quite real.

[/list]

 

[Johnfv]

...On the mini-switches, do I actually need to add the diagonal wire on the lugs or is that connection already part of the switch?...

I'm not Cagey but I think I understand your question about the mini switches. The "diagonal wire" shown in the diagram allows series/parallel switching for 4 wire pickups. Yes, it needs to be wired as shown on the lugs. FWIW, I really like parallel wiring on blade style pickups in a Strat, in most cases I hard wire them that way (no series wiring).

 

[Mnemoflame]

Many thanks, Cagey.

Going by the color code diagram from Seymour Duncan (all brands represented), the bridge would have it's north and south coil finish tied to the push-pull while the neck would have the north and south coil starts tied there.  I think the point is normal series operation when the switch is down and split to inner coils when it's up; the fact that it functions when up but not puzzles me because a lot of standard diagrams just solder two wires together that way anyway.

Edit:  I was wrong, Cagey's instruction to join the black and white instead of the red and green was correct in terms of standard diagrams.  What's the right way to set up a split to inner coils?

Now, the Strat diagram has different arrangement of wires for the middle switch as opposed to the neck and bridge; should I expect this to create a similar problem to what I have with the Tele or will it just do Series/Single-Coil/Parallel as expected?

 

[Mnemoflame]

...On the mini-switches, do I actually need to add the diagonal wire on the lugs or is that connection already part of the switch?...

I'm not Cagey but I think I understand your question about the mini switches. The "diagonal wire" shown in the diagram allows series/parallel switching for 4 wire pickups. Yes, it needs to be wired as shown on the lugs. FWIW, I really like parallel wiring on blade style pickups in a Strat, in most cases I hard wire them that way (no series wiring).

Thanks much!

 

[Johnfv]

...
Edit:  I was wrong, Cagey's instruction to join the black and white instead of the red and green was correct in terms of standard diagrams.  What's the right way to set up a split to inner coils?...

Split (only one coil of a humbucker) is not the same as series/parallel. The diagram you posted is series/parallel. Parallel gives a more single coil tone but is still humbucking, that is why I recommend it. If you are using DiMarzio pups then wire it exactly as the diagram shows. The reason the middle is different is for reverse phase in the middle (pretty common for Strats).

 

[Mnemoflame]

...
Edit:  I was wrong, Cagey's instruction to join the black and white instead of the red and green was correct in terms of standard diagrams.  What's the right way to set up a split to inner coils?...

Split (only one coil of a humbucker) is not the same as series/parallel. The diagram you posted is series/parallel. Parallel gives a more single coil tone but is still humbucking, that is why I recommend it. If you are using DiMarzio pups then wire it exactly as the diagram shows. The reason the middle is different is for reverse phase in the middle (pretty common for Strats).

That question was directed at the Tele and its diagram but your answer is relevant anyhow.  Does the Strat diagram look reasonable?

 

[Johnfv]

...Does the Strat diagram look reasonable?

What pickups are you using? Do you really want series/parallel on each one? I don't recall ever seeing a 5 way switch AND 3 mini switches on a Strat.

 

[Mnemoflame]

...Does the Strat diagram look reasonable?

What pickups are you using? Do you really want series/parallel on each one? I don't recall ever seeing a 5 way switch AND 3 mini switches on a Strat.

They're going into a rosewood Strat with a rosewood/ebony neck; white pickups with black polepieces/rails in black mounting rings and with otherwise chrome hardware. 

DiMarzio D Activator Neck
DiMarzio Chopper
DiMarzio D Activator Bridge

The On-On-On switches are, ostensibly, for Series/Single-Coil/Parallel switching and the push-pull is to add the bridge to N and NM positions of the 5-way.  It's a bit ridiculous, I know, but I want the options this time around.  I had extensive debate with Cagey and Line6man in an earlier thread on the subject, which resulted in the switch in philosophy from independent tone and volume for each pickup to master tone and master volume.

What I mean by reasonable is:  does it have any particular wiring flaws that need attention?

 

[Johnfv]

...What I mean by reasonable is:  does it have any particular wiring flaws that need attention?

I didn't notice anything wrong, it certainly will give you many different options to try.

 

[Cagey]

I didn't notice anything wrong, it certainly will give you many different options to try.

Hehe! Yeah, and un-try.

I replaced the standard 5-way switch on a Strat with three 2-way toggles, which gave me 8 different settings as opposed to 5. Thought it would be great. It wasn't. It sucked. And if that wasn't bad enough, I did it to two Strats before I realized I didn't like it.

Problem is, sometimes you not only have to turn a pickup (or 2) on, you also have to turn a pickup (or 2) off. So, what used to be accomplished in one operation now took as many as three. Plus, it wasn't as instantly obvious where you were out of the corner of your eye. You had to look at the switches deliberately. And those were just 2 way switches you could simply bat one way or the other. I can't imagine what a pain in the shorts 3 way switches would have been, or additional switches on top of that.

But, nothing ventured, nothing gained, I guess. The 3- or 5-way Strat switch is one piece of classic design work that I don't think I'll mess with in the future.

 

[Johnfv]

...But, nothing ventured, nothing gained, I guess. The 3- or 5-way Strat switch is one piece of classic design work that I don't think I'll mess with in the future.

Agreed. Perhaps the value to setting up a guitar with all the options is you can learn what you like so you don't have to put all the options on the next one!   If I never had setup series/parallel on 4 wire pickups many years ago, I never would have found out how much I like parallel wiring (one of my favorite Strat bridge setups: Duncan Hot Rails wired in parallel). Now I just hardwire 'em that way...

 

[Mnemoflame]

...But, nothing ventured, nothing gained, I guess. The 3- or 5-way Strat switch is one piece of classic design work that I don't think I'll mess with in the future.

Agreed. Perhaps the value to setting up a guitar with all the options is you can learn what you like so you don't have to put all the options on the next one!   If I never had setup series/parallel on 4 wire pickups many years ago, I never would have found out how much I like parallel wiring (one of my favorite Strat bridge setups: Duncan Hot Rails wired in parallel). Now I just hardwire 'em that way...

This.  So very much this.  I just finalized my order with Warmoth this morning; now I wait for its arrival and talk to my luthier about a finish (I have money on account with him, may as well get a professional job). 

So, can either of you see what might be causing the buzz on my Tele?

Also, any idea where to get knobs (preferably chrome flat top) that will fit a 6.34mm solid shaft?

 

[Cagey]

So, can either of you see what might be causing the buzz on my Tele?

Are the wires all shielded? Not the cavity - that doesn't count. What about the lines going to the output jack? That's a long run, and notoriously noisy. Speaking of the jack, is there any chance you have the hot/gnd lines backwards? Also, I don't remember, but are you using single coil pickups? Not much you can do about those.

Also, any idea where to get knobs (preferably chrome flat top) that will fit a 6.34mm solid shaft?

Just about anywhere. The list is long. Warmoth sells them, just for starters, but they have a $25 minimum order so if you don't need anything else...

Guitar Fetish sells a lotta knobs, mostly metric, although they don't say so. It's a crap shoot. But, that kind of knob uses a set screw, so the minor difference in shaft diameter isn't usually an issue.

 

[Mnemoflame]

So, can either of you see what might be causing the buzz on my Tele?

Are the wires all shielded? Not the cavity - that doesn't count. What about the lines going to the output jack? That's a long run, and notoriously noisy. Speaking of the jack, is there any chance you have the hot/gnd lines backwards? Also, I don't remember, but are you using single coil pickups? Not much you can do about those.

Also, any idea where to get knobs (preferably chrome flat top) that will fit a 6.34mm solid shaft?

Just about anywhere. The list is long. Warmoth sells them, just for starters, but they have a $25 minimum order so if you don't need anything else...

Guitar Fetish sells a lotta knobs, mostly metric, although they don't say so. It's a crap shoot. But, that kind of knob uses a set screw, so the minor difference in shaft diameter isn't usually an issue.

Wiring aren't shielded but guitar was quiet before; humbucking pickups so there's no good reason.  I'll try switching the jack wires.

Thanks for the link to Guitar Fetish.  I actually talked to a fellow at Warmoth on the phone about it and he checked their knobs; they don't have anything large enough for a 6.34mm shaft.

 

[Cagey]

Even with humbucks, if the wires aren't shielded, all bets are off.

 

[Johnfv]

Even with humbucks, if the wires aren't shielded, all bets are off.

Yes. I was chastised recently for where I did/did not put shielding paint in a build. Cagey is spot on with the point about shielded cable. If the wire is shielded you are covered, you don't have to worry about the foil or paint or whatever...

 

[Mnemoflame]

Braided shield wire for the win?  Do you guys have a favorite brand or type of this kind of wire?  Maybe a solid core variety at about 22 gauge or 20 gauge?

 

[Cagey]

That's the stuff. And that's a good price at that length.

 

[Cagey]

You might also want to consider some tinned bus wire while you're at it.

It makes it a lot easier to tie the shield of the cable to ground. You just put a wrap on the outer shield of the cable and solder it in place, then you have a nice, thin, manageable piece of wire to tie to whatever you want to tie it to. Keeps you from having to unravel the braid and re-twist it into a wire to get something to solder to a connection.

A quarter-pound roll will last you about 148 lifetimes if all you do is wire guitars. But, it's only $8, and the convenience is worth a helluva lot more than that.