Thinline Tele Build - HH Wiring Questions

[Ozopart]

I have a Warmoth Thinline Tele build that I had a third party wire for me. I am unhappy with what they did and want to re-wire myself. It is a rear rout with two Fralin Modern PAF Humbuckers, and Strat controls. The person who built it made it with two volume pots, and one master tone pot.

I am thinking of using the Freeway 3B3-01 6 Position Free-Way Blade switch, and CTS pots. It doesn't look like I will need push/pull pots based on the diagram from Freeway. My question is whether there is value in adding a Blender Pot to a wiring scheme like this. Also, I am thinking of one master volume pot, and two tone pots.

I am also thinking of using a Pure Tone output jack instead of Switchcraft.

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[Rick]

Only can say the switching what's most useful for me. With a blade switch I'd be looking for the following:
1 neck
2 neck and bridge
3 bridge
4 neck and bridge in series
5 neck bridge in series out of phase
6 neck bridge in parallel out of phase
Push pull for splitting the pickups globally.
Good luck.

 

[Ozopart]

Only can say the switching what's most useful for me. With a blade switch I'd be looking for the following:
1 neck
2 neck and bridge
3 bridge
4 neck and bridge in series
5 neck bridge in series out of phase
6 neck bridge in parallel out of phase
Push pull for splitting the pickups globally.
Good luck.

Thanks! I think the Freeway switch does all of that with the exception of the push/pull for splitting. I am trying to avoid a push/pull as my soldering skills are not great and I am using CTS pots and I have had lots of issues with the CTS push/pull pots the way the little holes are on that vertical plastic piece.

 

[Rick]

Tell them what you want, they may have an off menu diagram. Here's the one they sent me. It takes them a day or two to respond, but if they can help you they will. You have to start your conversations with them using their messaging on the freeway website. They are really nice gentlemen,. I think if you don't use the push pull or the mini switch like below, your options become very PRS like, if you don't do the attached schematic, and I found PRS switching uninspiring (PRS is three normal with the humbuckers, and then various options split, and it really isn't that interesting. However, your mileage may vary, but I couldn't find uses for it, and the below plan kicks it up a notch. You need something with balls, right?) If you don't like push pull then use a mini switch.

 

[Ozopart]

I actually did ask them for a modified wiring diagram because I am using 1 Volume and 2 Tone Pots. This is what they sent.

It sounds to me like I can do coil splitting without a push/pull pot, but if I am wrong, please let me know. I think they are saying I can do it with a push/pull, but I don't have to do that.

 

[stratamania]

View attachment 60264

I actually did ask them for a modified wiring diagram because I am using 1 Volume and 2 Tone Pots. This is what they sent.

It sounds to me like I can do coil splitting without a push/pull pot, but if I am wrong, please let me know. I think they are saying I can do it with a push/pull, but I don't have to do that.

That diagram is correct for what you asked for but it does need switches to have coil splitting. What they are saying is you require at least one DPDT switch which could be a push-pull to do coil splits. The wires with the grey circle denote what would need to be switched to ground.

You will also need to map the Fralin wiring colour codes to that of the Freeway diagram.

The CTS pots you solder to the terminals at the bottom, not the little holes are on that vertical plastic piece.

 

[Ozopart]

Thanks stratamania! Makes sense. So for my setup I would need 1 single throw for the Volume and 2 push/pulls to individually split each pickup?

For the CTS push/pull pots, and your last sentance. Do you mean at the bottom of the plastic piece the sort of protruding silver pieces marked the same as the holes above them? Sorry if this doesn't make sense.

 

[Rick]

Also, i wouldn't go with the half out of phase option, because the series out of phase option gives you that nice nasal funk tone. There might be a way to use a 5B5 switch but I wouldn't know how to wire it. I think though you would miss out on the humbucking series options, and you would be defaulting to the anemic PRS type switching which is useless.

 

[Ozopart]

Just wondering on the PRS type switching that you don't like. Does this mean you don't like PRS guitars? Specifically, I was thinking of buying a PRS McCarty 594 10th Anniversary guitar to add to my collection as most of my guitars are Warmoth builds and I want a bit of variety. Just wondering if that guitar has the PRS switching that you don't like.

 

[Rick]

PRS has various options, and I love the build of their guitars. If it were me, though, I'd go with a warmoth vip, as you can get something more custom to your needs. If you see my signature below you'll see what I built with the warmoth parts. I think it came out alright. Of note, it's not exactly a PRS shape, and has a different geometry, that I like better. Again, it's personal taste.

The classic PRS switching is:
Bridge,
Bridge and Neck
Neck
Bridge and Neck inner coils
Bridge and Neck outer coils
and another one that I forget.

PRS would allege that the 4th and 5th options are more tele and stratty. You may find they are such to you. To me, they just made it wimpy. When you have the series options you kick it up a notch, and by putting them out of phase, in the parallel option you get something stratty, with the series out phase you get the nasal funk, and with the series in phase you get more more more!

Just depends on what you're looking for. You can try both and see which one you like.

 

[Ozopart]

That all makes sense, and having 3 Warmoth builds I know that the ability to customize "exactly" to what you want is most desireable. I am 100% happy with all three of my builds, with the exception of the wiring on one that I paid someone to do, and which I want to now rewire as noted in the original post on this thread.

Many decades ago I had a 59 Tele, and a goldtop LP (not sure exactly the era, I think either late 60's or early 70's). I sold both long ago, unfortunately. I wanted to replace the LP with a newer one but having looked at a lot of them in the store I thought they looked cheap these days, especially the finish.

For this guitar I really want something from done professionally, and something that has more resale value, although I would likely never sell it. the Warmoth builds are great, but for some reason, they just have little resale value.

I was thinking the PRS McCarty 594 10th Anniversary, might be somewhat similar to a LP. So for this guitar I am not looking to emulate a Strat or Tele, but rather a more vintage LP.

 

[Rick]

If you're going for resale, then just buy the most macdaddy PRS you can afford. Another way to think about it is, like a home. Some people buy it as an investment, others view it as a place to live. Either viewpoint is just as good, just pick your poison as they say.

 

[Ozopart]

I go with both, resale and a place to live! But again, I don't ever resell these days as I don't trust the cyber world for such things. I just, for no good reason, want one guitar that is not "home made". Again, no good reason, just something I want to do. I lean towards the PRS McCarty 594 10th Anniversary because it has the USA made pickups and wiring which I have heard is "better". I also avoid things made in Asia when possible. One reason I started my Warmoth journey. Another reason was at the beginning of the pandemic, and for quite a while throughout it, getting off the shelf guitars was difficult, if not impossible.

 

[stratamania]

Thanks stratamania! Makes sense. So for my setup I would need 1 single throw for the Volume and 2 push/pulls to individually split each pickup?

The term throw refers to switches, so nothing to do with the volume pot.

Use a normal volume pot, and a push/pull for each tone control to individually split each pickup.

For the CTS push/pull pots, and your last sentance. Do you mean at the bottom of the plastic piece the sort of protruding silver pieces marked the same as the holes above them? Sorry if this doesn't make sense.

See the below diagram of where you solder to on a CTS push pull compared to a more traditional push pull.



Here is a link to the article where the diagram is from for more explanation and information on how to use them etc.

CTS Push Pull Pot Wiring

Here is our guide to wiring CTS push pull pots. Adding a push pull pot to your guitar opens up a new world of potential switching options and in this guide we cover some basic wiring mods you can try out and some easy to read diagrams (specifically covering CTS push pull pots). CTS push pull...

sixstringsupplies.co.uk

 

[Ozopart]

I actually found that site yesterday. Very imformative. Those are the wholes I was soldering into. For an inexperienced solderer like me, they are a bit difficult, but I think with a better soldering tool like a Weller Soldering Station, I can do it.

Either way, for coil splitting, I believe the following statement from Freeway means I don't need a push/pull. But, I think to do it with SPST pots, I wouldn't be able to use the "extra" 3 switch choices for series and parallel.

Here is what Freeway said:

"For a "master" coil split a DPDT would be used but for individual splitting you only need a SPST switch per pickup, SPST is basically two terminals but typically SPDT will offer the same function. Therefore you need a minimum of SPST per "individual" split, whether this is via push/pull pot or mini-switch."

 

[stratamania]

Either way, for coil splitting, I believe the following statement from Freeway means I don't need a push/pull.

They are not saying that.

But, I think to do it with SPST pots, I wouldn't be able to use the "extra" 3 switch choices for series and parallel.

A DPDT is needed to switch between series / parallel wiring for a single humbucker. But a SPST can be used to split one pickup.

You cannot use a DPDT on a push-pull to do series/parallel and also coil split. It is one or the other.

"For a "master" coil split a DPDT would be used but for individual splitting you only need a SPST switch per pickup, SPST is basically two terminals but typically SPDT will offer the same function. Therefore you need a minimum of SPST per "individual" split, whether this is via push/pull pot or mini-switch."

For individual switches (forget about pots for a moment) a SPST is sufficient to split one pickup. With a DPDT you can either split one pickup if you use only half the switch, or choose to split both pickups from a single DPDT, which is what they are calling a "master" coil split.

A CTS push-pull pot is a pot which happens to have a separate DPDT switch attached to it. You can use one to split both pickups at the same time or use two and wire each pickup to split via each individual switch attached to each push-pull pot.

 

[Ozopart]

I did double check with Freeway and what you said is of course exactly what they said also.

I went ahead and ordered CTS Push/Pull pots for both Tone pots, and a CTS SPST pot for the Volume pot.

I prefer to have the ability to coil split each pickup individually, so the push/pull would be the way to go.

Thanks!

 

[Rick]

There you go!

 

[stratamania]

I did double check with Freeway and what you said is of course exactly what they said also.

Thanks for confirming.

I went ahead and ordered CTS Push/Pull pots for both Tone pots, and a CTS SPST pot for the Volume pot.

What is each of these pots going to do?

You have two pickups, and three pots. You only need two pots with DPDT push pulls or SPST to do individual splits.

I prefer to have the ability to coil split each pickup individually, so the push/pull would be the way to go.

Yes, but now you have three push pulls, two DPDT and one SPST. You only require two push pulls to do that on the tones and a normal pot without a switch for the volume.

 

[Ozopart]

Pardon my ignorance on the proper terms. What I plan is the 2 push/pull tone pots, and 1 volume pot which is just the "normal" pot with 3 lugs. Hopefully that makes more sense.

I ordered more pots than needed as I am not sure what needs to be done exactly, but my understanding is with the push/pull pots, and with the Freeway switch, I might be able to coil split, and also do some other stuff like series/parallel or phase switching. Not sure on any of that yet. For now I ordered more parts than needed, and will just determine the best approach when I get ready to build out the harness.

At the moment the current wiring in this guitar is OK, but it was just so poorly done I imagine it's days are numbered. Also, I wanted 1 Volume, and 2 Tone pots, and the guy who build it out did 2 Volume, and 2 Master Tone pot. It does do individual coil splitting though so for now it is fine.