CAD models of ALL Products Available Upon Purchase

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harryprayiv

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I am in the beginning of an insanely tough guitar build (a semi-hollow 28.225- 25.5” multiscale 7 string telecaster) with flamed maple top on mahogany using Warmoth’s Super 7 Baritone Neck (without frets so I can cut my own in that weird multiscale pattern) and it is a HUGE headache for me to model the guitar and get the neck pocket perfect the first time because Warmoth doesn’t have CAD models of this part (or any bodies or necks they offer for that matter). 

2hQBC9R.jpg

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inside
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cavity and neck joint

I have approximated the neck fairly well in Fusion 360 but I actually am going to have to cut dummy bodies in my CNC mill just to make sure I am not off in my measurements.  And forget about using my CNC machine to cut the fret slots (which I had originally planned to do) because Warmoth only offers one 9-12 inch compound radius on the Super 7 and it would take 20 years for me to figure out how to put the neck on the CNC bad and have EVERYTHING line up perfectly...which has EVERYTHING to do with not having a CNC model of it since I can’t make a work-holding cavity that I could put the neck in on the CNC bed.  If I had had the option, I would have bought the neck with a flat radius and without a nut slot (and also without a tilt-back headstock) but since they intentionally limited the Super 7’s options, I have to reinvent the wheel as a luthier. 

You can bet that once I get this neck scanned, I will be sharing it here.

It occurs to me that Warmoth should offer SUPER accurate models of each of their products to people since they are expecting us to FINISH these guitars after they make them.  Additionally, it’s absurd that they can’t even tell you the first thing about the measurements of the necks, so you can’t even pre-emptively model the neck in CAD before you get it.  For example, I had to buy a super long digital ruler to learn that the Super 7 Neck is APPROXIMATELY 21.825” long from nut to fingerboard end and I am seriously considering having my neck 3D scanned by a special local company so I can make sure my CAD representation of the neck is PERFECT.

Would it be possible for the community to band together and get all of Warmoth’s products 3D scanned or at least have proper GCode that we can reverse engineer?  I get that it is about protecting intellectual property to some extent but I need to know these measurements to make a decent body for this admittedly excellent neck.  It seems like a no-brainer to ask for as a customer in the modern age of =guitar building.  If these measurements didn’t matter, I wouldn’t care but they REALLY, REALLY do.  Next guitar I build, I am not going through Warmoth for the neck because of how much of a headache this has been even though I love their necks and bodies.  It would have been easier and probably sonically superior to just make the whole thing neck through and leave Warmoth out of the equation if they can’t even tell me a basic measurement.
 

Cagey

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What you're asking for is not something that I think many would use much, if at all. Plus, not everyything is done on a CNC do I'm not sure what you want even exists in the form you want it. For instance, the compound radius is done on a machine that looks something like this...

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I'm sure Warmoth has their own design, but that unit is available from Grizzly. They're only a little over a grand, so it's approachable if you want a well-heeled guitar shop  :icon_biggrin:
 

harryprayiv

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I think you might be jumping to the logical conclusion of what I require a bit. 

I would even simply be ok with measurements of where of where my part meets Warmoth's part.

For me, that is a simple, extremely accurate measurement of the LENGTH of the fingerboard from nut to heel of fingerboard and a 3D model of the neck pocket or at least some 2D CAD models because the angles are not 90 degrees.  I am measuring 89.2 degrees on each side of my neck.  Would be nice to have a nice, clean top-down CAD file to refer to when I model the neck joint on my guitar is all I am asking...and I am sure many would agree with.  For example, I now have to buy a radius gauge to find the real-world curvature of the sides of the neck pocket.  The better the neck fits, the better a guitar sounds.  I took picture and went from there, but lenses add distortion and I can never be sure until I cut actual wood. 
 

harryprayiv

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PS, if it is a seperate machine to add the neck radius, why don't they allow you to have NO neck radius added to your neck?  That would have been totally fine for me. 

I also wanted a different neck profile (boat back, actually) but that was also not offered in the admittedly obscure neck I picked. 
 

Cagey

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Since they're building these parts from raw stock, they're obviously capable of things beyond what are offered through the "online builder" or any catalog listings, but they're often things that are either not asked for often enough to add the AI to the site to accomodate, or are custom enough that they're rarely asked for. In such cases, they're always willing to listen to customer desires, so a quick call can often get you what you want, or a good reason why you can't. It's not like calling Microsoft or GM. Call Warmoth, and you're actually gonna get some useful answers without rowing through 729 departments.
 

stratamania

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To be somewhat direct I think this post is expecting far too much from any manufacturer.

You have a CNC machine and are doing CAD of your design to get ready to program it. Additionally, you are using a Warmoth's neck and are going to adapt it but instead of measuring it and putting that into your own CAD and adapted drawings you want the CAD files or intellectual property provided.

To expect any manufacturer to provide their CADs and R&D or asking the community to help to scan and reverse engineer into CAD all of Warmoth's offerings is beyond fanciful.

Remember however difficult your build is it remains your build and not a reason for a manufacturer to give away their IP.
 

harryprayiv

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Should’ve known I’d get these bootlicking replies on here.  I’ll just 3D scan their neck and share it online then. At the bare minimum, providing actual measurements of the neck that I just shelled out $650 for is a COMPLETELY reasonable request. 
 

stratamania

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harryprayiv said:
Should’ve known I’d get these bootlicking replies on here.  I’ll just 3D scan their neck and share it online then. At the bare minimum, providing actual measurements of the neck that I just shelled out $650 for is a COMPLETELY reasonable request.

No one is licking anyone's boots. I do not represent Warmoth and my view is not a reason for you to share anyone's intellectual property. Your request is not reasonable at all however you justify it.

You paid for a neck, not the rights to a design or CAD files.
 

mayfly

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8,300
Hi Harry,

I really like your designs, but I build my own guitars.  Can you share your CAD files with me so I can have them made locally?

Thanks!
Mayfly
 
S

swarfrat

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Cagey said:
that unit is available from Grizzly. They're only a little over a grand, so it's approachable if you want a well-heeled guitar shop  :icon_biggrin:

It took me a while to realize, but my real hobby is collecting tools. All the other varied and sundry hobbies are just the pretense.
 

Cagey

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I'd wager that if you picked up one of those little lovelies, you'd be the first kid on your block to have one  :laughing7:
 

harryprayiv

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Mayfly said:
Hi Harry,

I really like your designs, but I build my own guitars.  Can you share your CAD files with me so I can have them made locally?

Thanks!
Mayfly

I’m not quite done with the design (notice the fugly sharp edges in some places on the body) but when it is done, I’d be happy to share.  Working on a neck-through versión now too. 
 

harryprayiv

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Cagey said:
Call Warmoth, and you're actually gonna get some useful answers without rowing through 729 departments.

Untrue in my experience.  I got a lot of pushback about the options I wanted.  I’d have preferred to create my own radius on the fingerboard and neck profile but that was not an option even on the phone.
 

Cagey

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I didn't say they'd do anything, just that there are things they can/will do if asked that aren't advertised or documented on the sales site.

Everybody has places where they draw a line they won't cross as far as what they're willing to do. I do a lotta custom work myself, but that doesn't mean you can call me up and get me to do whatever you ask.
 

spe111

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I don't think it's the worst idea ever for Warmoth to sell technical drawings, but I certainly don't think it should be expected. My custom shop Fender cost a lot more than I could ever spend on a Warmoth and it didn't come with technical drawings either.
 

TonyFlyingSquirrel

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To me, I can totally see why they would NOT.

It's their product, with their spec, and any provision of technical CAD drawings would then enable an end user to no longer need to purchase said product from Warmoth.

Again, supply & demand.  If you remove the demand and all you have is supply, then you have surplus inventory.  Supply and demand work hand in hand for any commercial provider of a consumer good.

 

TBurst Std

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Mayfly said:
Hi Harry,

I really like your designs, but I build my own guitars.  Can you share your CAD files with me so I can have them made locally?

Thanks!
Mayfly
Post of the year
 

Rick

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4,506
There are wood working clubs where I live, with people who have experience to guide you.  I'm sure where ever you live there's something similar.  You know, there once was a time before CAD and people just figured it out themselves.  Recently I designed and built a shed, no CAD used.  Just my brain, a piece of paper and a pencil.

 
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