Build me a Tiger, Please.

[gr8fl4295]

New to this forum.
Irwin's/Garcia's Tiger has been on my mind for awhile since discovering Warmoth.
I've some amazing guitars on here.
I don't have any guitar building experience, which is why I'm asking the master craftsmen here to help me out.
I'd like to try to get as close as possible to the look and sound of a Tiger without breaking the bank.

Please send me a message with any info and price quote.

Thnx!
Derek

 

[AutoBat]

If you want the sound, you need the active components. Good luck with that.

 

[gr8fl4295]

I guess what I'm saying is, I just started playing guitar, so I don't want to spend $5,000 on something I would be able to use to it's full potential.
So I'm open to more suggestions.

Thanks,
d

 

[Eric Banjitar]

Much of Jerry's sound, as with all players, is technique. Some of the tone can be achieved with an envelope filter, distortion pedals, and a flanger.

Q-"How do you get to Carnegie Hall from here"
Smart A$$ answer "Practice, Practice, Practice"

 

[drewfx]

It's not going to match Irwin's level of ornate workmanship, but these are the basics:

Tiger was neck through with an elaborate "hippie sandwich" body of layers of different woods and brass binding. It was also ungodly heavy. You can read about some of the details here:

http://dozin.com/jers/jers/guitars/tiger/info.html

Some more detailed info, including schematics are here (Waldo also sells Garcia-style buffers many Deadheads rave about):
http://www.wald-electronics.com/tiger.html

You aren't going to replicate that without having masterful woodworking skills or paying someone lots and lots of money. So the compromise is to either modify an existing guitar, or create a less ornate version.

For a Warmoth, you start with a WGD body (perhaps maple) with a figured top that you like. Tiger's top is cocobolo, but it's not going to affect the sound if you pick something different.

If it's a Warmoth neck, a maple LP neck with ebony fingerboard would probably be closest.

Pickups would be Dimarzios - Tiger had an SDS-1 in the neck, and either Super Distortions (aka Dual Sounds) or Super II's in the middle and bridge. Jerry switched from Super Distortions to Super II's in 1982, so you have to decide which era's sound you want. The wiring needs to split the coils, as Jerry supposedly spent something like 90% of the time on the middle PU split (using the neck side coil).

Tiger also has a buffer and OBEL (On Board Effects Loop), which sent the full strength buffered signal out to his effects and back before the volume control. This allowed him to bypass his effects from a switch on the guitar and control the volume post-effects. Whether or not you want OBEL, you will want a buffer of some kind to give you a clean low impedance output.

Tiger had brass hardware, but I'm not sure if anyone is currently making that stuff.

Tiger had elaborate inlays, and there are people who will do wonderful inlay work, but that would cost a bundle. The inexpensive option is to get Tiger-like inlay stickers from here:

http://stores.ebay.com/Jockomo-InlayStickers/_i.html?_nkw=garcia&submit=Search&_sid=639778940

 

[gr8fl4295]

Thank drewfx!
Getting me closer to what I need.

Anyone out there want to trade their guitar building skills for a brand new 15" MacBook Pro (maxed out).
I have one for sale.

Just throwing it out there.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Tonar8352]

I have enjoyed reading this thread because it sent me on the search to find out about “the Tiger” I read past articles about the guitar in Guitar Player years ago but I went and look up the links that are posted in the thread and reacquainted myself with the instrument in question. That thing was a piece of art that could not even come close to being replicated for $5000.00. So that leads me to wonder what I would do in an attempt to at least replicate the look and sound of the instrument.

If one were to choose Warmoth as the builder of the body and neck he would have to accept that it would have a bolt on neck. According to the second link in the post the Tiger did not have neck through but a glued in neck, which would make it similar to a Les Paul in construction. So could a bolt neck be used, sure but it would have a different look and sound.  Can you live with a bolt on neck construction?

The hardware would be difficult because the tailpiece was custom made for the guitar.
Also the pickups surrounds, jack plate, scalloped nut, switch plate and knobs would all need to be custom made to match the guitar. So what would be the decision regarding your hardware?

The electronics would probably be the easiest thing to replicate since Gary Brawer is alive and well and worked on the guitar so he is familiar with the guts of it. At least there is a very detailed schematic of the wiring so any good tech could pull it off if he can get his hands on the parts. My tech works for Gary and I bet he could handle the job.

The inlays. Wow! I know someone that could do it but you would not see the guitar for at least a year and the cost would be out of this world. 

So the bottom line is what are you willing to live with in your attempt to replicate the guitar. I think a dead nut replica would start in the $25,000.00 range which would be a deal since the real one sold for over $900,000.00.  One built with a Warmoth body and neck along with regular hardware and custom wiring is still going to be expensive but you could do the footwork yourself to figure it out.  Get a cost on the body and neck, figure out what you are willing to spend on hardware and get that in order, find the pickups and then call Gary Brawer and see what he would charge to assemble it for you.

I hope you go for it and post pictures so we all can enjoy the process.

Good luck!

 

[drewfx]

So the bottom line is what are you willing to live with in your attempt to replicate the guitar. I think a dead nut replica would start in the $25,000.00 range which would be a deal since the real one sold for over $900,000.00.

There's actually a closet industry selling Garcia-style guitars.

Your $25,000 is probably about right (or a little low) for the most detailed/accurate ones, but some start in the few thousand dollar range.

Interestingly, Thomas Lieber (http://www.lieberguitars.com/) recently announced that he and Irwin were having some Korean built Tigers made, but the details aren't clear yet (his initial post on this thread apparently got deleted when he was editing it):

http://www.rukind.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=419&t=11503#p107094

 

[mayfly]

Given what I know about this instrument, I have to agree.  $25,000 for an accurate replica is about right.

For a warmoth bolt on, with some one else doing the assembly and electronics and setup, complete with custom pickup rings etc - that's gonna be about $5000.00

and you'll need a $100 strap to hold it up  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[SixString]

WOW   Being a Dead/guitar fan, I feel somewhat ignorant never realizing Jerry played on such a high-dollared instrument.  Those price tags are crazy!

 

[drewfx]

WOW   Being a Dead/guitar fan, I feel somewhat ignorant never realizing Jerry played on such a high-dollared instrument.  Those price tags are crazy!

My recollection is Tiger cost him a few grand, but that was in the '70's. And he basically told Irwin, "do whatever you want", so cost wasn't a consideration.

The scary part to me is Tiger was Jerry's main guitar for almost a decade, and he played hundreds of gigs a year with it, many of them outdoors! Not something I'd do if I had a guitar like that.

 

[Eric Banjitar]

Also know that an EXACT copy of tiger was produced by a fan and given to jerry. Check out his excerpt from:

http://dozin.com/jers/guitar/history.htm

      Jerry had about 25 guitars, but 70% of his time in the spotlight he played just 3, all custom built by the same luthier. 
1993- The Stephen Cripe guitar "Lighting Bolt"
    Garcia's next guitar arrived in the mail at the Grateful Dead office in 1993. Stephen Cripe, a 39-year-old Florida woodworker who spent years building custom interiors for Caribbean yachts, decided to try his hand at making a guitar. Using a few photos and a well worn "Dead Ahead" video., he knocked off Irwin's design of Tiger with a few flourishes of his own, like carving the body out of a piece of East Indian rosewood recycled from a 19th century Asian opium bed. It had an acoustic piezo pickup built in. Built "totally by feel", the cocobola through-body neck has a recycled Brazilian rosewood fingerboard (note: Jerry's interest in the rain forest) with an unusual accuracy in the higher end allowing him to play where he usually avoided.

" Garcia was amazed when it came around," said band mate Bob Weir, "at the guesswork he had to make -- and got right -- to give that guitar Irwin's look and feel. It was astounding."  Garcia gave the piece to San Francisco repairman Gary Brawer to fix the electronic guts, but it was a miracle guitar.

He pronounced the piece "the guitar I've always been waiting for" and began playing the instrument exclusively. It came to be called Lightning Bolt. Garcia met with Cripe briefly backstage at a Florida concert and commissioned a second guitar for $6,500, known as Top Hat, although Garcia almost never played it. Cripe, whose hobby was making fireworks, died in May 1996 when his work shed blew up. He used an exploding firecracker as the insignia on his guitars' headstocks

 

[gr8fl4295]

ok.  Thanks for all the info and suggestions! You guys are great.
So, if I go with Warmoth WGD body and Warmoth neck, which wood combos do you guys suggest?
Also, what would be on my shopping list for all the other materials/parts/components?
I want to do this, but I need instruction and guidance.

 

[gr8fl4295]

Hey all,
Here's the details of my WGD. Let me know if it looks ok, or if there's anything I can specify to make it look more "Tigerish".
Next, I'll need to get recommendations on where to buy hardware and electronics.

BODY:
Model: WGD Scale: 25-1/2 in.
Orientation: Right handed
Wood:
Core: Maple
Front Laminate: Indian Rosewood
Front Laminate Unique Choice: LT1025
Control Cavity: Rear Rout
Pickup Rout: Humbucker (Neck) - Humbucker (Middle) - Humbucker (Bridge)
Control Rout:
Volume 1 (LPS) Volume 2 (LPS) Tone 1 (LPS) Tone 2 (LPS) Standard Toggle Hole (LPS)
Bridge Type: Hardtail
Bridge Rout: No Bridge Rout
Jack Rout: 3/4" (19.05mm)
Side Jack Hole Neck Pocket: Strat® Shape
Mounting Holes: Standard 4 Bolt
Battery Box: Single Battery Box
Top Finish: Clear Gloss
Back Finish: Clear Gloss
Nalls Mod: Yes

NECK:
Style: LP Construction: Warmoth Pro Angled Scale: 25-1/2 in.
Neck Wood: Shaft Wood: Maple
Fingerboard Wood: Ebony (Black)
Orientation: Right Handed
Nut Width: 1 11/16"
Back Shape: Standard thin
Radius: 10-16" Compound
# of Frets: 22
Fret Size: 6105
Tuner Ream: Schaller (25/64", 11/32")
Inlays: No Inlay,Side Dots Only
Pre-Cut Installed String Nut: White Corian
Mounting Holes: Standard 4 Bolt
Finish: Clear Gloss
Binding: Pearloid

 

[Eric Banjitar]

Its gonna be a beauty

 

[drewfx]

You went with LPS controls and toggle - do you have a plan worked out for that? Strat style 5-way switch is obviously the way Tiger was wired. If the holes for the pots aren't where you want them, you can omit some or all of them and drill your own.

What are your plans for the bridge?

Oh, and it could be a bad idea to reference specific pieces in the showcase or Unique Choice if you haven't ordered it yet - if someone is considering that specific piece for a build and see it here, they might buy it out from under you.

 

[stubhead]

FWIW, I feel that his very best playing was in between 1972 and '74, when the majority of the time he was playing "Alligator", a 1957 Stratocaster given to him by Graham Nash and modified with a hardtail brass/wood bridge and some electronics from the people who later became Alembic. This is a different Strat, though also a '56/'57 maple neck, playing in 1972:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmiOBYJy2vk&feature=related
The famous Live/Dead "Dark Star" was during his first SG period, and some fine playing came from that and his second SG period, 1971-'72.
His absolute best tones though, came from "Wolf", his second Irwin guitar:
http://www.dozin.com/jers/guitars/wolf/wolf.htm
$1500... snif. :sad1:
He used it in 1974, and after a brief dabbling with Travis Beans returned to it in 1977. Any of the primo 1977 and '78 shows were that guitar. It had some temperature-related tuning problems (dog knows why) but dear god, that sound.... it had the preamp, but still some woody, personal roar. This is the single best example of "electronic chamber music" I can isolate (Wolf):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3bjA-fc-cE
5:15-9:00 - yeek, the interplay....

To me Garcia's later tones were too perfect - when he could play at all well. From Crosby's biography and other sources it's easy to infer that Garcia had been dabbling with the heroin all along, and it got a hold of him in '78 and '79 and at best, there was a coldness to his playing. And after he died the first time in 1986, it got evil - they propped him up in front of a teleprompter and had a doctor on tour just to pump him full of whatever was needed to keep the bucks flowing in. Unlike Hendrix & Allman, who died entirely from their own disregard for safety, there were some nasty aspects, and I can't listen to the playing without knowing it. I would build an "Alligator"....
http://www.ruschguitars.com/brass_guitar_parts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Garcia#Personal_life

500 GD concerts! -
http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/

 

[Alfang]

Why isn't there a pic of this mysterious tiger guitar here yet?

Now you guys got me interested

 

[stubhead]

http://dozin.com/jers/jers/guitars/tiger/info.html

Whoa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy7zoEE7cWk&feature=related

 

[jwl68th]

A heads up for you. Brian Nalls no longer makes or sells parts for the Garcia inspired guitars so if you are looking for that triple humbucker mounting ring you'll have to have it made yourself.