Best Quiet P-90s

[whitebison66]

I've read through the numerous threads, but please allow me to explain myself...

I live in Hong Kong. What few lights are not fluorescent are neon. I'm all for original tone, etc., but I gotta have noise-cancelling (or reducing) pickups.

So my question is this: Which of the quiet P-90s sound best and/or closest to the original? I'm not looking fo answers as much as opinions and discussion!

I've heard the Gibson P-100s criticized, though I had some a while back and liked them. Anyone know about the H-90s?

Like I said, I wish I could be vintage about it, but that's just not an option.

This will be a Non-Reverse Firebird body (KnE, not Warmoth) with 3 P-90 routs. I've thought of going (original) P-90/mini/P-90 and using a toggle and three volumes, see if I could blend in a bit of the mini to cancel noise.

But I wanted to ask here first.

Thanks in advance for your answers!

 

[exalted]

Are you dead set on P-90's?

If you're building a Firebird, you could put some Firebird pups in there. They share some qualities with P-90's, but they're humbuckers.

 

[callaway]

Does your reference to a "mini" mean a mini-humbucker? If so, it will not help you cancel noise at all with a P-90 since it will be canceling its own noise.

Has anyone tried Lace Sensor P-90s? I've often wish I had some noiseless P-90s instead of my Fralins. The Fralin P-90 is great, but I can't live with the noise in most places I play, rendering the guitar nearly useless.

 

[TroubledTreble]

Probably the best way to cancel noise with a P90 is to use a dummy coil. This is a coil that is reverse wound, had slug poles but no magnet. You place this dummy coil somewhere in or on the guitar. There may be space for one in the bottom of the control cavity or secured to the back of a cover plate of a rear routed guitar.

The tricky part in your situation is getting it to work with all of the pickups. When a single pickup is selected the dummy coil needs to be active and the coil wired opposite of the pickup it is in series with. That may be achievable with a push pull type switch. Just make the dummy coil active when needed. Another way is wire it so that when two coils are selected i.e. humbucker style, the signal is tapped at the point the dummy meets the real pickup. That effectively takes it out of the circuit.

Here is one article on this subject with sound clips: http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articles/blue_gtr/gtr/paul_jr_revisited.pdf 

I hope some of this helps.  :icon_thumright:

 

[whitebison66]

Thanks for the replies!

I had thought about a dummy coil, and now I will look into it further. I get the impression that the dummy has to be the same size/shape as the real one.

As for the mini-humbuckers, I was wondering if having it and the P-90 selected at the same time might lessen the noise. With a volume pot, I was hoping to blend them. I may try it just to see.

The body's routed for P-90s, and I just wanted to have a guitar with them in it. I have a pair of SD minis I could use. I even have a pair of Dimarzio Super Distortion P-90 size pickups (I don't know why either).

I guess there's always the EMG P-90s... :-\

 

[callaway]

Thanks for the replies!

I had thought about a dummy coil, and now I will look into it further. I get the impression that the dummy has to be the same size/shape as the real one.

As for the mini-humbuckers, I was wondering if having it and the P-90 selected at the same time might lessen the noise. With a volume pot, I was hoping to blend them. I may try it just to see.

The body's routed for P-90s, and I just wanted to have a guitar with them in it. I have a pair of SD minis I could use. I even have a pair of Dimarzio Super Distortion P-90 size pickups (I don't know why either).

I guess there's always the EMG P-90s... :-\

Using a humbucker in combination with a P-90 will not reduce the noise. You will get the signals of each pickup added together. So you'll get the mini-humbucker signal with no noise + the P-90 signal with noise = mini-humbucker + P-90 + noise.

 

[exalted]

You can have one of the pups RWRP...that would cancel hum in the multiple-pickup positions.

 

[Unwound G]

Hey whitebison66, I visit Hong Kong very often.  I usually hang out at Tom Lee looking for bargains.

Dummy coils work but you really need a place to install them.  Check out John Suhr's gizmo (scroll down the page) : http://www.suhrguitars.com/pickups.aspx#Hums .  If you are handy with a router, a shallow cavity behind the Firebird will do.

On the other hand if you can wait a month or so and spend some cash, Kinman is coming out with his noiseless P90s labelled as Hx90.  I kinda trust this guy about capturing true pickup tones and eliminating hum.  I have a neck/bridge set on order but Chris still has to price it before confirming. Check out : http://www.kinman.com/Shop/hx90.htm

 

[callaway]

You can have one of the pups RWRP...that would cancel hum in the multiple-pickup positions.

That's how my P-90 guitar is now of course. The middle position is okay for some clean jazz stuff, but that's about it. With any sort of drive or distortion the sound is complete rubbish.

Having the mini-humbucker RWRP from the P-90 is not applicable though, since it is actually a real humbucker with two coils, one RWRP from the other.

 

[OzziePete]

You can have one of the pups RWRP...that would cancel hum in the multiple-pickup positions.

That's how my P-90 guitar is now of course. The middle position is okay for some clean jazz stuff, but that's about it. With any sort of drive or distortion the sound is complete rubbish.

If the two P90s are wired in the usual way, they'd be in parallel with each other even though one maybe RWRP. To get a more aggressive middle position tone, you'd have to figure out a way to wire them up in series?

 

[whitebison66]

Thanks for all the tips. This is becoming a real endeavor! I remember reading a while ago about the BPSSC being prepared for P-90s, but didn't see anything on the Suhr site (did I miss it?).

The hx90s seem like a good idea too. I'll have to see when they are available.

 

[tfarny]

Fralin just came out with some noiseless P90s. One more thing to check out.

 

[callaway]

Fralin just came out with some noiseless P90s. One more thing to check out.

I wish he had the noiseless ones 3 years ago.

 

[whitebison66]

Okay, I've been reading up on this...

And I'm still confused!

If I have a bridge/neck pair of P-90s, and I use another (all 3 being as close as I can get in resistance) for the dummy coil, could I place the dummy in the middle pickup rout? Is it too close to the other pickups or the strings?

Also, does the dummy have to be the same size/shape/style as the real pickups? I'm assuming yes...

Thanks!

 

[Unwound G]

To understand what a Dummy Coil really is, picture a humbucking pickup with one of the coils without magnet slugs (refer to attached diagram).  What you get is a pickup with two bobbins of wounded wires.  Basically the signal of the plucked strings will be sensed by the coil with the magnetic polepieces as in any single coil pickup.  Now the other coil without the magnets will simply act as a hum-cancelling coil or "Dummy coil".

This "Dummy Coil" has to be wounded in reverse to the coil with the magnetic polepieces before it can eliminate the hum.

For P90 pickups, the Dummy Coil magnet has to be removed and the 6 screw polepieces can be glued back for visual purposes.

If you use the middle cavity of your Firebird to house the Dummy Coil, it will only be for cosmetics apart from doing its duty to cancel hum for the neck and bridge coils.  The guitar will be a two pickup guitar with just neck, bridge and neck/bridge selections.  However, tone can be preserved although not completely because of the extra Dummy coil winding.

If you can source a cheap China made P90, experiment with it.  I am sure it will work with your higher priced neck and bridge pickups.

 

[whitebison66]

Thanks Unwound!

That post and diagram clarify a lot of what I've been reading.

I figured that I never use the middle pickup by itself in my strats, and I wasn't looking for any P-90 'quack' sounds, so if the dummy would work in that spot, then great! 

I have a pair of Fernandes P-90s that aren't bad, but I may sacrifice one for the dummy and get some SDs or something else.

 

[Unwound G]

Glad to be of any help.

Here is a pic of Gibson's P90 patent drawing.  Notice how the magnet can be detached and shimmed with anything non-metallic.

Have fun.