Baritone Neck is Here!! (was re: Touching up)

[fdesalvo]

Wow that FB is perfect

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

That's a Rembrandt right there! :headbang:

 

[swarfrat]

Don't have electronics wired up, but I strung it up tonight and started working on setup. It's strung 13-56, tuned C# to D in 4ths. I may have to go down to 12 or 11's or drop the tuning down to C. I haven't hit plastic deformation, but man it's a bit scary winding up that high D (and the wound 3rd string too).  It's quite the bat too. You could really hurt someone if you swung this stick across their noggin. Going through Erlewine's book, and I have WAY more relief than he uses (0.008 - still pretty flat, but he claims to get 0.004), and tried setting the 1st string at 0.031 @ the 12th, and it's fretting out.  Thinking maybe I'm measuring wrong. I looked through, but I assume that's measuring off the fret tops. Is he measuring the 12th fret open or fretted at the 1st fret?

 

[swarfrat]

Got my initial setup done.  Hoping that locking tuners makes it doable to dump and restring without eating up a new set any time the pickguard needs to come off. Bought some springs. Gotta find the trem arm (probably wherever my springs are)  Need to order my switches for s1/s2 and mix. Also need to figure out what I want for controls.. vol/tone, or guitar volume / midi volume. Would be cool if the GK system let you map any MIDI control. Would make a nice mod wheel.

This thing is FAT. It feels exactly like two more frets tacked on to the end, the way the guitar hangs.

Also, I didn't knoe this but the baritone has an odd but small inset on both sides... kind of like a super wide. FYI. I don't think I have read or seen any reference to it. doesn't bother me but I could see someone getting bent out of shape over it, it was really unexpected

 

[Cagey]

Going through Erlewine's book, and I have WAY more relief than he uses (0.008 - still pretty flat, but he claims to get 0.004), and tried setting the 1st string at 0.031 @ the 12th, and it's fretting out.  Thinking maybe I'm measuring wrong. I looked through, but I assume that's measuring off the fret tops. Is he measuring the 12th fret open or fretted at the 1st fret? 

.008" relief is not out of line. To get much better than that, you really need to be sure your frets are perfectly level, and even then you might find that some strings sound somewhat dead acoustically even if they don't "buzz". A baritone setup is going to have a wider/taller travel to the string vibration due to their longer length and increased mass, so the action is going to be a bit tall relative to "standard" scale guitars. Look at a bass. You never see those strings down within kissing distance of the frets - they'd buzz almost no matter what.

Put a straightedge on it and adjust the neck to flat, then use a fret rocker to make sure you don't have any tall frets. Even new necks always have at least a few.

 

[swarfrat]

Could not help myself...

Was playing my Memphis equipped strat tonight, and yea.... a pair of gold Memphis 2's OTW. Can't wait to hear it in the neck.

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

Looks so good! That neck is just awesome!

 

[rgand]

Could not help myself...

I thought about a pair of those when I was building my Strat. Good choice.

 

[Cagey]

I just listened to the samples they provide, and think I'm gonna have to use a set on something myself. I especially like the "Hot Liverpool" set.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I think any of the Retrotrons, but especially the Memphis and the Nashville are great choices for a baritone voiced Strat, Tele, or the now available Mooncaster (+Bigsby).

I agree regarding the action/setup.  I have mine pretty low, but it has a lot to do with the way I pick also.  If I really lay into it, I can get it to buzz, but it doesn't.  Mine is loaded up with 6100's too, so I can get underneath/beside them to bend nicely.  Aside from some stretches when playing scales in the lower range, it really doesn't feel that much different from playing .10's in A440.  I have mine strung up with http://www.juststrings.com/elx-12302.html as it has a plain 3rd string, feels great!

 

[rgand]

I just listened to the samples they provide, and think I'm gonna have to use a set on something myself. I especially like the "Hot Liverpool" set.

Clean, I like the Hot Nashville set best. Dirty, I prefer the Hot Liverpool set. A mahogany Musiclander with those in it would be great fun. Or a chambered alder Strat.

 

[swarfrat]

The Memphis just has this searing upper mids that remind me of Trevor's U87 clone tracks.  It's bright and in yer face, but not ice-picky. (Or maybe the ice-pick sensitive range of my hearing has finally been beat down enough that everyone else's way bright guitars finally sound good to me too.)

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

The Memphis just has this searing upper mids that remind me of Trevor's U87 clone tracks.  It's bright and in yer face, but not ice-picky. (Or maybe the ice-pick sensitive range of my hearing has finally been beat down enough that everyone else's way bright guitars finally sound good to me too.)

This, taking into consideration the guitar being transposed down, and the increased scale tension, should result in a guitar sound that sounds really fat, but sits nicely in the mix while, allowing room for Bass & other instruments.

 

[Cagey]

Or maybe the ice-pick sensitive range of my hearing has finally been beat down enough that everyone else's way bright guitars finally sound good to me too.

That could be. I always thought that hearing impairment was a loss or diminution of either high or low end frequency ranges (kinda like a low- or high-pass filter), or an overall loss/reduction of dynamic range/loudness altogether, where at its extreme you were deaf. But, I've recently learned that you can either lose or suffer loss/aggravation/annoyance at particular ranges. I can't remember the name of the condition, but I think it's something you're born with, not necessarily developed through abuse. Wherever I read that, they also mentioned that it can be a reason some people simply don't enjoy music, or if they do, are "tone deaf".

 

[swarfrat]

I do remember as a teenager finding everyone's loud Fenders to be really obnoxiously bright. I suspect I'm not a member of the same club as most rock n rollers over a certain age.

 

[Cagey]

I don't know how old you are or how many old Fender amps you've been around, but many of them were obnoxiously bright. Not only that, they had some pretty wild dynamic range to them, so it may not have been the brightness as much as the assault on the senses. The reason for that was that Leo wasn't exactly an electrical engineer, even though he was into radio stuff to start with. Most of his amp circuit designs were cribbed directly and without modification from the RCA tube manual, which included "example" circuits that were the Rosetta Stone of how to use their tubes to their best advantage. As a result, things were pretty high fidelity. RCA had a vested interest in showing engineers how to put their products to their best use.

Of course, he wasn't the only one. Companies like Ampeg, Traynor and Shure, for instance, did the same thing, the difference being they didn't scrimp on parts like Leo was wont to do. Their stuff was so high-fidelity it would tear your head off if you turned it up, while Leo's wimpier power supplies, output transformers, and discrete components were of less-than-stellar integrity so as to save money, which gave them a certain character.

It wasn't until the later '60s and early '70s when musical styles changed that you started seeing amp designs that were deliberately degraded/modified to introduce certain distortions in response curves and fidelity. Enter Marshall, Hi-Watt, Vox et al.

 

[rgand]

Cagey, I had a late 60's Fender Bassman amp that really worked fine as a lead amp. I could play a mandolin through it and really bring out the highs. Maybe you've explained it for me.

 

[Cagey]

Bassmans were magical, and I don't know why. They're what Marshalls were originally based on. These days, I play through an Axe Fx and you'd think with having pristine reproductions of some pretty esoteric amps such as Dumbles, Diesels, Trainwrecks, Mesas, etc. that I'd pass on the more pedestrian stuff. But, no. The '59 Bassman is still my go-to amp. Thing kicks ass and is willing to play with you, rather than tell you how you're going to play.

 

[rgand]

Bassmans were magical, and I don't know why. They're what Marshalls were originally based on. These days, I play through an Axe Fx and you'd think with having pristine reproductions of some pretty esoteric amps such as Dumbles, Diesels, Trainwrecks, Mesas, etc. that I'd pass on the more pedestrian stuff. But, no. The '59 Bassman is still my go-to amp. Thing kicks ass and is willing to play with you, rather than tell you how you're going to play.

Yeah, I often wish I had that one still. That and the 2x15 speaker cabinet that came with it.

 

[Cagey]

If you can't find a used one, you can still have have a new one at a reasonable price from Ceriatone. In fact, those guys have a number of interesting amps that are not copies, per se. They also aren't the cheap knock-offs the OEMs make that are cosmetically correct, but employ new technology that makes them kukka. They're the original designs, warts and all. You can even buy them as kits and save a pile of cash if you're able to do that sort of work.

Wander around the site. You might get inspired.