Are string retainer necessary on basses?

[Fat Pete]

I'm well aware of the pros and cons of string retainers on guitars but what about basses? I'm putting together a P (with a J width neck) - standard, non-angled headstock. The nut will be given a pro setup.

If they are needed, I'll probably go for one of the Hipshot triples - any thoughts on these?

Thanks!

 

[Day-mun]

Insofar, I have yet to put one together that didn't need it. The Hipshot double came in handy for the wider P-bass width/string spacing, but the round "vintage-style" fit nicely on the J-bass' 1.5" nut-width. I build the thing w/o the retainer, string it, then tuck the round retainer in between the tuned D & G strings, slide it out to the desired distance from the nut (-I measure from the nut to center of the mounting screw hole so mine are all the same... I know. -Pretty anal...), and mark the spot with an awl... um, -and so on. (-Don't think anyone here needs a tutorial on how to drill a pilot hole, so...)  :doh:

But like I said, the Hipshot was nice when the little round one didn't fit snug between the natural string-paths. Getting it on there square and inline to receive the strings wasn't too bad with the double, but the triple may or may not be as forgiving on string-to-sting spacing, -that I dunno.  :dontknow:

 

[line6man]

I love my Hipshot three-string retainer, and wouldn't build another bass without one.

 

[Day-mun]

@ line6man:  Your bass(es) with the Hipshot triple installed has/have the 1.5" nut width, right? No problems with string-to-string spacing being narrower than the retainer's intended lands?

 

[line6man]

@ line6man:  Your bass(es) with the Hipshot triple installed has/have the 1.5" nut width, right? No problems with string-to-string spacing being narrower than the retainer's intended lands?

Yes, standard 1.5" nut.
I have had no issues. Here is a picture I dug up on my Flickr page from when I strung up with Rotos. I don't have any other pics at the moment.

 

[Fat Pete]

Thanks both  :icon_thumright:

 

[drewfx]

I've always found it necessary on a bass without an angled headstock.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Yes, it's necessary.  I have guitars without them, and my first Warmoth bass build I initially didn't install one but later added.  The Hipshot triple retainer works fine for the J Bass nut width.  I have it on 4.

 

[fretless]

yup , otherwise not enough down pressure over the nut  some of the strings will pop right out of the nut and or buzz over the nut . They can feel funny to with less than normal tension .

 

[Fat Pete]

Thanks again. Hipshot retainer now ready in the parts pile!

 

[stratter]

Unless the headstock is angled, string trees must be used to put downward pressure on the string, especially the lighter gauge ones.

 

[bagman67]

That is often the case, but for six-string guitars, anyway,there's something to be said for a less convoluted path from the nut to the tuner.  If your nut is well cut and you have good locking tuners, you need not install string trees much of the time.  Some have suggested string trees were applied in the Fender factory in part as a means to solve the problem of mass-produced nuts being cut inconsistently.  If you do a solid setup yourself, or pay a truly qualified tech to do it, the rationale for the string tree is far less pronounced.


IANAB (I Am Not A Bassist) so I have no idea whether any of the above holds true in the bass arena.

 

[stratter]

Better safe than sorry!

 

[Cagey]

Better safe than sorry!

You would think. But consider that most (if not all; I'm not a bassist, either) bass strings are wound, and they're wound with relatively heavy wire. If the string winds bump over an obstruction like the nut or a string tree or a bridge saddle, it's going to change intonation fairly dramatically. Means the little rascal won't stay tune for long. If by some miracle you get it in tune, stretching the string by bending or otherwise abusing it, you're going out of tune. Being a bassist, people will make fun of you and call you a Wookie or something. Can't have that.

So... better safe than sorry? Yes. Don't install obstructions. Unless, of course, you have a crummy bass that needs all the help it can get. I know musicians hate to throw money at their instrument that doesn't enhance it's appearance, but a good setup guy is a wonderful person to know. Help him raise his kids, keep the lights on, etc. You won't be sorry. I can pretty much guarantee it's better for you than it is for him.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Never thought about that, but I guess it could be true; where the winding sets on the nut and bridge changing the intonation.  But...the string tee being an obstruction not happening in the speaking length of the string negates it changing the intonation. Plus, the space between winds on a bass string extending or shortening the scale llength, thus changing intonation, only does so by half at the 12 th fret.  Intonation on a fretted instrument is approximate at best.  Differences of the space between windings areaacceptable and hardly worthy of consideration. Oh to be cursed with those ears.

 

[drewfx]

Better safe than sorry!

You would think. But consider that most (if not all; I'm not a bassist, either) bass strings are wound, and they're wound with relatively heavy wire. If the string winds bump over an obstruction like the nut or a string tree or a bridge saddle, it's going to change intonation fairly dramatically. Means the little rascal won't stay tune for long. If by some miracle you get it in tune, stretching the string by bending or otherwise abusing it, you're going out of tune. Being a bassist, people will make fun of you and call you a Wookie or something. Can't have that.

So... better safe than sorry? Yes. Don't install obstructions. Unless, of course, you have a crummy bass that needs all the help it can get. I know musicians hate to throw money at their instrument that doesn't enhance it's appearance, but a good setup guy is a wonderful person to know. Help him raise his kids, keep the lights on, etc. You won't be sorry. I can pretty much guarantee it's better for you than it is for him.

This is nonsense.

String retainers are necessary on a bass with a Fender style headstock and cause no problems. Guitars are a different story.

 

[line6man]

Better safe than sorry!

You would think. But consider that most (if not all; I'm not a bassist, either) bass strings are wound, and they're wound with relatively heavy wire. If the string winds bump over an obstruction like the nut or a string tree or a bridge saddle, it's going to change intonation fairly dramatically. Means the little rascal won't stay tune for long. If by some miracle you get it in tune, stretching the string by bending or otherwise abusing it, you're going out of tune. Being a bassist, people will make fun of you and call you a Wookie or something. Can't have that.

So... better safe than sorry? Yes. Don't install obstructions. Unless, of course, you have a crummy bass that needs all the help it can get. I know musicians hate to throw money at their instrument that doesn't enhance it's appearance, but a good setup guy is a wonderful person to know. Help him raise his kids, keep the lights on, etc. You won't be sorry. I can pretty much guarantee it's better for you than it is for him.

This is nonsense.

String retainers are necessary on a bass with a Fender style headstock and cause no problems. Guitars are a different story.

+1.

We all know a well cut nut and a good setup can eliminate the need for string trees on a guitar, but it doesn't work that way on a Fender style bass.  You need something to push the strings down.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I'm still reeling over wound strings resting place in the nut throwing off the intonation.  Concession of the possibility withstanding certainly explains the Chuck Norris-esque Eric Johnson stories reintonating afterevery string change even when rreplacing with the same brand and gauge.

The intonation screws on my Fender type bridges are 6/32, and a bulky 8/32 on the Music Man.  1 turn equals 1/32", 1/2 turn equals 1/64", 1/4 equals 1/128", 1/8 turn equals 1/256", and so on.  I've never measured the gap between windings, but it has to be in the thousanths of an inch. Roughly the amount of turns on an intonation screw will turn by giving the screw driver a stern look.