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'54 Goldtop Tele project

Part of the problem was that I got primer on the binding as well, I discovered sanding back the edge. Should have scraped binding after primer, then remasked, then shot Goldtop paint. Getting ready to try this again....
 
Jack,
I shoot black lacquer as a primer coat under my fender style gold finishes.  I would do the black, scrape the binding, shoot a coat of clear over the whole thing and the binding gets resealed with clear, then tape it off, shoot the gold and finally pull the tape and scrape the binding.

PS I hate finishing guitars with binding!! 
PSS Gold Tops are the hardest finish to do but they sure are beautiful!
 
No more white primers for me...  Kind of what I did; sanding back about an inch along the edge; remasked differently going around with X-acto to cut masking right at edge of binding. Currently filling sand back and evening out Goldtop coat from edge back in. Luckily this stuff melts back in when you go over it.
 
Well, that didn't work out too well; got the masking/binding thing down, but had just sanded back edges trying to fix the issue. Unfortunately, the Goldtop paint wouldn't even back out, although it may be hard to see that from the pic below. Will need to sand the entire top back and start over, but out of the Goldtop paint and had to order more, so back on the shelf till after Turkeyday...

Tonar - Any reason you REALLY need to use primer under this? Wouldn't sanding sealer and a couple of lacquer coats work as well?


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Seems a real toughy jack but all the best with it. Overcoming challenges in any field is the most satisfying thing a person can do. I love the idea here and I really thing your on to an absolute winner. 
 
I thiought that would be the case Jack.  Metallic colors want to be set down in one wet coat.  But...it should only be a quick overspray now to get it all evened out.  You're so close!

I do not think you need to sand back - just mask and one more shot to even the metallic look.  But disclaimer: Its hard to see in the pics, and you're there - so do whats appropriate.  My thought there was - the "color" is there, you just need the "texture" to even up.  I know even shaking the can will sometimes mess up texture on a metallic from an aerosol.

Its not uncommon for binding to NOT be completely scraped.  That is - you can see binding under the finish on many 335's.  What they DO get is a nice even line... all the way around.  I was told - part of the expense of the guitars like the LP Custom and ES-355 (not 335) are the multi stripe bindings (which W used to do and wisely stopped doing).  Those MUST be scraped to the gnats pubic hair of ruin.  On a color like ebony, or cherry, it works ok, you get a little wood showing, just correct it.  On a metallic.... Lord.... don't even think of it.

Finally - that looks a bit warmer than the G gold top - more like their copper top, hows it look in person?  And... (finally again) you don't see primer in either W's or G's pickup cavities.  Makes me think they don't use primer.  I'm wondering how that came into being.
 
I found two advantages to using the black.  Black lets you see any imperfections so if you make the black perfect first the gold is going on a perfect base.  I also found that the gold covered the black faster. I’m not sure about the opacity of the ReRanch stuff but with the powder I used it worked great.

Buy the way, the gold Tele that I have posted in the Tele thread I painted three times.  I had to strip it twice to get it right.  I hated that guitar by time I got it finished.  I called it Diablo Oro (gold devil); after we got it put together it became La Paloma (the dove).  It seems like the ones that are the most work turn out to be real special. I think you guitar will rock when it is done.
 
the "color" is there, you just need the "texture" to even up.  I know even shaking the can will sometimes mess up texture on a metallic from an aerosol.
I’m with CB don’t start over try this.  Sand the whole face lightly and then shoot it with one or two coats of clear like you are sealing it.  Level sand the clear, tape the binding again and then shoot the gold using the following method and see if it works out. Metallics do tend to look mottled or blotchy if they are applied using a regular spray pattern. I would try to hold the can at least 12 inches away from the surface and swirl it as you move across the surface.   That way the finish falls on the surface in a random pattern like drywall texture is sprayed.  Don’t spray it like paint; spray it like a splattered drywall texture.

 
Don't have enough paint, ordered more. I'm sure that I'll have to sand the top completely back to primer as where I sanded it back and tried to refill comes up a lighter color and won't blend back in completely, as you build up the coat it gets a little darker, so you have to do it all in one shot. I've got the application down, but it's going to need to be shot over all at once.

Color is hard to render; it IS a little "bronzier" than the std. Gibson, but if finished in non-UV treated lacquer and allowed to yellow a little might get close. It IS slow to cover, you have to keep on laying it down.
 
Damn, Jack, this thing is turning out so righteous, I can't wait for you to get more paint!  I'm kidding, of course, but you were so right to do this to a Tele instead of a Strat. Long live "Fenson"!!!!
 
jack, you get a new project everyweek, they're the talk of the town on this forum, great work man, good on ya for taking challenge on this one
 
I'm going to be in Jacks shoes soon and looking for a way to smooth out the scraping process.  I found a simple devise at Lee Valley that appears like it could be helpful.  Here is a link:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=50440&cat=1,42936

There is an attachment That allows the installation of a break away type blade (see bottom photo.)  I thought this could be used for cutting the edge of the binding before scraping. 

Then for scraping, you'd need to mod a blade (perhaps cut a piece off a utility knife) so that the blade would be perpendicular to the binding.  The knife holder is probably a clamp device of some kind, so just about any shap of the proper width would mount up.

Scraping the large ouside curves of the body would be very easy.  For inside curves, such as cutaways, the tool would need a different pivot in order to maintain proper distand from the binding. 

Thoughts?
 
bpmorton777 said:
i'd be worried about this device scraping up the side of the body as you were marking off the top.

Brian

I guess you could put something on the face to help it glide along, but at this point in the process is not the edge of the body still in the raw?  Any tool marks could be sanded out rather easily.  There will be trade off's for sure, but seems like it beats sanding off a weeks worth of ReRanch Gold.
 
I think the real trick is taking a real long time and getting the masking done really, REALLY well. I paid a lot more attention to that on the second try and only would have had a couple of very small places that needed any scraping, but couldn't get the color to even out, as it darkens as you layer it on.

You learn a lot doing different unique kind of projects and working with different finishing materials; if you want to use the ReRanch Goldtop Gold be prepared to to do some sand back at first as it takes a little bit of spraying to get the hang of laying it down. There's NO lacquer, you're laying down a metallic layer that needs to go down all at once and sprayed in very light passes to build up the finish. It dries really quick but if you barely touch it you can smudge/put a line through it and really need to start early in the day so you can get all the Goldtop down and still have time to start spraying at least a couple of lacquer coats to seal it after doing any scraping, but the KEY is to get the masking as near perfect as you can so as to minimize the need to scape anything.

At any rate, if doing a finish anything like this project, here's what is working for me:

1.) Do the different finish on the sides/back of the binding FIRST, masking the binding off in that direction is real simple, you don't need to worry about the top at all and it's relatively easy to mask off the binding from that direction and just use wider tape and score it and fold it over the top. 2.) Fill and finish the sides and back through whatever process/finish you're using through the first few coats of whatever top finish you're using.
3.) After stripping the existing masking back off, start tearing pieces of masking tape off long enough to generally follow the curves of the top, you'll use longer pieces on straighter parts and shorter pieces on the tighter curves,  Press each piece down and rub it against the binding so that it clearly shows through (use regular masking tape instead of the blue).
4.) Using a SHARP X-acto knife CAREFULLY score the masking tape at the very edge of the binding that you can see through the tape and use a fingernail to pull up/separate the tape at the scoring and pull off the part overlying the top. This is easier to do one piece at a time working your way around the top. It is tedious and exasperating, and you will have the tape tear in places and have to redo it that section over. Once it's right, press down the tape over the downside of the binding.
5.) Continue this process all the way around, then just liberally apply additional masking tape all around to mask off the entire side to the edge; as it's already been lacquered getting it back off is no big whup.
6.) Shoot your top finish till you get it where you want it to be...
7.) CAREFULLY pull all your masking back off; start at the point where you started and most of it will come up attached, there will be a few small pieces you will need to scrape back off with a finger nail.
8.) Score the sharp outside edge of the binding per the instructions above from CB and sand the edge smooth.
9.) Hopefully there should be almost nothing that needs to be scraped at this point, but what there is needs to be done at this point should be scraped.
10.) Shoot your lacquer or other top finish coats.

Again, other can chime in, but from my experience so far the secret of binding scraping is to spend a LOT of time/effort masking as to reduce the need to scrape anything to the absolute minimum.


 
Well, got the top sanded back to the primer, will probably be waiting till tomorrow for some clear grain filler to dry out all the way; had a tiny ding and a couple of places that needed a bit of fill; then will bind off and re-shoot the Gold Top paint refill that came in over the holidays....
 
Now it's starting to look like a '54 Goldtop Tele... Awful weather is making 1 coat of lacquer a day about it....


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man...that is going to be one hell of an axe.  that's some vision, jack!  i'm excited to see it when it's all finished and put together!  :eek:ccasion14:
 
I can't wait either; unfortunately given that's it's now dead winter with ice/snow/sub-freezing temps, getting the lacquer coats on is a long drawn out process...  Neck finishing's already done, just a matter of getting enough lacquer coats in the body & assembly...
 
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