What material to narrow holes in headstock?

[Rens]

Hi everyone,

i'm building a fretless Jazz Bass with an all ebony showcase neck.
I ordered some Hipshot ultralites 1/2 inch, because I thought the holes in the headstock were standard fender size. Well, after fitting the ultralites I came to the conclusion that my headstock was drilled for Schaller BML's (which I don't like at all).

Now I came up with  a simple remedy. I'm going to have an acquaintance of mine make 4 metal rings that have the outside diameter of the 'bml-holes' and an inside diameter that matches the ultralites.
I'm going to hammer the rings in the headstock so it will fit the ultralites exactly.

Now for my question...should I make the rings out of aluminum (same as the ultralites) or should I make them out of stainless steel, which is much harder, but a tad heavier.

The rings will be quite thin, so even stainless steel wouldn't get too heavy. Then again, to prevent neck-drop, lighter is better. What will be the best for transmitting the string vibrations to my neck? What would you do?

Thanks guys!

 

[croquet hoop]

What would you do?

I would plug the current holes with dowels, and re-drill them the correct size  :icon_biggrin:

If I were to do as you plan, I would use aluminium (easier to machine & lighter), but it seems unnecessarily complicated.

 

[line6man]

I wouldn't want to use metal for that. I would use wood to match the headstock material.

 

[Cagey]

I agree with the others - plug and re-drill. Metal sleeves aren't going to buy you anything and will be a major league pain in the shorts. Although, if you can have that sort of thing done easily, I don't see a downside to it.

All Ebony neck, eh? I'm envious. One of these days...

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

If it's All Ebony, you may just need to invest in a kickstand at the headstock.

I handled thousands of necks when I worked at the Turtle house, and none were heavier to me than the all Ebony ones.
"Insane Heavy" doesn't even come close to describing, and that's just the strat necks.  The bass all ebony necks were like barbells!

 

[Rens]

Oh, I forgot to mention the rings won't be visible since the hipshots cover them completely, the ring will be about 1.5 mm thick. A friend of mine can machine the rings in a heartbeat...for free...from any type of metal.
So using ebony is very unnecessary and unpractical in my case. If it were visible I would use ebony...of course!

...and the neck weighs 2 lbs 14 oz. Is that very heavy? I have no idea what, for instance, a maple neck weighs.

So...aluminum would be the best choice?

 

[line6man]

Oh, I forgot to mention the rings won't be visible since the hipshots cover them completely, the ring will be about 1.5 mm thick. A friend of mine can machine the rings in a heartbeat...for free...from any type of metal.
So using ebony is very unnecessary and unpractical in my case. If it were visible I would use ebony...of course!

...and the neck weighs 2 lbs 14 oz. Is that very heavy? I have no idea what, for instance, a maple neck weighs.

So...aluminum would be the best choice?

Ebony is still a better choice than using metal.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

The neck is completely ebony, shaft & fingerboard, & only weighs 2 lbs 14 oz?
That's pretty remarkably light!

 

[Rens]

Oh, I forgot to mention the rings won't be visible since the hipshots cover them completely, the ring will be about 1.5 mm thick. A friend of mine can machine the rings in a heartbeat...for free...from any type of metal.
So using ebony is very unnecessary and unpractical in my case. If it were visible I would use ebony...of course!

...and the neck weighs 2 lbs 14 oz. Is that very heavy? I have no idea what, for instance, a maple neck weighs.

So...aluminum would be the best choice?

Ebony is still a better choice than using metal.

Why line6man? The tuners and other hardware aren't made out of ebony, so why would ebony be better?


Yes Tony, it's completely made out of ebony. And is that light? I always thought that it wasn't too heavy.

 

[line6man]

Oh, I forgot to mention the rings won't be visible since the hipshots cover them completely, the ring will be about 1.5 mm thick. A friend of mine can machine the rings in a heartbeat...for free...from any type of metal.
So using ebony is very unnecessary and unpractical in my case. If it were visible I would use ebony...of course!

...and the neck weighs 2 lbs 14 oz. Is that very heavy? I have no idea what, for instance, a maple neck weighs.

So...aluminum would be the best choice?

Ebony is still a better choice than using metal.

Why line6man? The tuners and other hardware aren't made out of ebony, so why would ebony be better?


Yes Tony, it's completely made out of ebony. And is that light? I always thought that it wasn't too heavy.

Metal is negligibly compressible. Forcing a metal piece into the holes may stress the headstock wood. (I suppose the metal could be undersized, but then you will lose your strong coupling with the headstock. I don't know how great of an effect this will have.)
Metal could possibly give you dead spots, as well. It's hard to say what will happen, given the variability of materials, but wood is just easier to deal with.

 

[Rens]

Aha, I see. My friend is very exact (that's what metal-workers are known for), so he's going to take precise measurements and will make sure it will be a tight fit. Not stressing the wood, but also no gaps. I expect these rings to be more precise than the usual fit of an ultralite in a drilled headstock. If my wallet was bottomless, then I would probably go for wood, but since I can have this done for free, I'm going for the metal sleeves.

Thanks for the info anyway!

And for anyone who's interested, I'm posting my build over here: http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=24330.0

 

[croquet hoop]

You do not have to use the exact same wood as the neck, anything could do (especially since it will not be visible, as you said). You could use maple for instance, and avoid the potential problems stated by line6man.

On the other hand, since you can get these rings for free, it does not hurt to experiment a bit. If it does not work, you can still remove them and go with the safe method, if it works, more props to you! I will be following your progress thread with interest.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

When I worked there, some 5.5 years ago, I used to move the showcase bodies/necks to allow incoming inventory, and I remember some (about 4-6 total) of the Strat necks being all ebony, and weighing in at about 4 lbs each.  I don't recall ever handling an all ebony bass neck.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I don't see any problem with using metal. Basically it's the same as if the tuner itself was a bit wider in the first place. I guess I'd probably use the same metal as the tuners themselves, but aluminium will be fine.

The rings don't have to be a particularly tight fit in the wood. There's no reason at all to stress the wood there. They should slide in and out with firm finger pressure, the same way that a normal bushing would. When you tighten up the nuts and put string pressure on the tuner the whole thing will be rock solid.

Transmitting string vibration to the neck via the tuners? That's not a thing. That happens at the nut. If you pluck a string and then muffle the strings between the nut and tuners with your fingers, you'll find that the string continues to vibrate. The tuners are there to provide tension; the nut removes the tuners from the sonic equation. And anyway, why do you want to transmit vibration to the neck? That's just energy lost to the string, removing sustain and volume. Your pickups can't hear the neck vibrating.

 

[Rens]

Yes Jumble, that makes perfect sense and that's exactly why I thought these rings are a simple but effective solution.. However, choice of neck-wood does color the tone. So has that coloration only to do with surface or also with vibrations going through the neck, effecting the string and then into the pu?  :icon_scratch:

Tony...check the picture!   So, what do you think? Neck dive won't be much of a problem? I'm getting a chambered walnut body, which is one of the heavier woods.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Nice neck!
The chambering of the body will reduce its weight to some degree, so neck dive might be a possibility, but if you're using lighter hardware on the headstock, that may compensate.

Either way, you'll have a nice & toneful neck to play on, and buttery smooth too!

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Yes Jumble, that makes perfect sense and that's exactly why I thought these rings are a simple but effective solution.. However, choice of neck-wood does color the tone. So has that coloration only to do with surface or also with vibrations going through the neck, effecting the string and then into the pu?  :icon_scratch:

Vibrations do go from the strings to the neck, but like I say, this happens at the nut, rather than the tuners. At the tuners, the strings aren't vibrating (disclaimer: they probably are vibrating slightly by a negligible amount).

Any vibration that transfers into the neck reduces energy in that frequency in the string itself, so yes, that does affect tone.

 

[Rens]

Yes, that's what I thought. Thanks for clearing this up! Perfectly logical actually...

 

[Rens]

So fyi, I've had some rings machined out of a hard plastic. The guy who made them advised me to go for this material since it was very hard and very light.
He made them so precise, I had to sand a bit of them becaus the fit was so tight I woulbn't be able to screw on the caps of the ultralites.
Now they fit like a charm and I'm very pleased with the result.