What Makes a Tele a Tele, A Strat a Strat and a LP an LP?

[Jusatele]

Grey wolf I have to disagree about bolt vs set.
that would be like saying a 2012 corvette is not a corvette because the early corvettes uses solid axles and the new ones are all independent suspension
Bolt is just a evolution in production technique. It has been argued to death about how it effects tone and ther are some real tone monster clone LPs with bolt necks.
I know Gibson will not change, but that is their problem, not ours.
I own bolt, set, and neck through guitars and as far as tone goes, it is not the neck set, if that was the entire thing then neck thru would rule over set neck.
think of this also, set neck has to transfer vibration through a glue joint, it is not wood to wood it is wood to glue to wood.

 

[hannaugh]

My bolt-on neck is one of the main things that makes my Warmoth LP better than a Gibson in my opinion.  Bolts > glue. 

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Feeling much better, thanks!  A cold thing has been going around town.  Last about three days or so.....

The BC Rich is not bad.  Not a lot of fret buzz or anything bad to say about it but it isn't really worth selling.  By the time you paid for the shipping and I got a little out of it I think you'd be better off finding something near your home.  If you lived closer, I'd suggest you stop by and see it if you were still interested. 

Better yet, I'd loan you one of my others to record with.  I also have an Applause Acoustic Electric (I got for free when I bought a Les Paul from Musician's Friend).  It is the cheap version of the Ovations.  Sounds pretty good.  YOu can pick one up at Musician's Friend pretty cheap.  I have a Takamine Acoustice / Electric.  Santa Fe Ediditon.  Real nice!  I also have a Fender 12 String.  Or the best of the all, the Martin D18 (acoustic only but I have a removeable pickup as well. 

I'd suggest you look at the local Pawn Shops.  I've picked up guitar and an amp at pawn shops and been pretty pleased.  You might be surprised what you find there.

Hearin' ya there.  I didn't see where you mentioned it was made in Korea, and I already have one of those, so no offense, but I'm not looking for another Korean guitar from around the same production time.  It wasn't until recently that I've found some of the Korean guitars to be worth another look.

Grey wolf I have to disagree about bolt vs set.
that would be like saying a 2012 corvette is not a corvette because the early corvettes uses solid axles and the new ones are all independent suspension
Bolt is just a evolution in production technique. It has been argued to death about how it effects tone and ther are some real tone monster clone LPs with bolt necks.
I know Gibson will not change, but that is their problem, not ours.
I own bolt, set, and neck through guitars and as far as tone goes, it is not the neck set, if that was the entire thing then neck thru would rule over set neck.
think of this also, set neck has to transfer vibration through a glue joint, it is not wood to wood it is wood to glue to wood.

The argument of neck-through vs. set neck vs. bolt-on has been beaten into the ground many a time. 

I can't recall where I saw it but I saw some sort of study on the issue with some sort of sound-testing equipment and apparently the sound qualities between the 3 were not much different from each other.  According to the tester, the differences weren't pretty minor.

 

[Jusatele]

Actually Daze, I was discussing it as a production technique
the reference to sound was because it really has no major issue
and I agree, it has be pounded to death, but remember, not all the guys here have seen those discussions, a lot of guys it is still new to them. One thing you have to understand about knowledge is everyone has a different degree of it, so even though I may be to the point of being sickened with a bit of info, It can be new to others, so I need to just sit back and let them discuss it. Otherwise how would they learn.

 

[pabloman]

A warmoth LP is not an LP because of scale length, neck, bridge, and pickup placement. A warmoth LP is still way more Strat than it is LP. Anything that matters as far as where your hands fall and ager the bridge is are all exactly the same as on a Strat. Any guitar you build from warmoth will be this way. The car analogy works here as well, Monte Carlo, Cutlass, Regal, same but different but still same. Camaro, Firebird same but different but still same. Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, same but different but still same. There's many examples but you get the point.

 

[hannaugh]

...but conversion scale is available.  It's not exactly the same as a Gibson, but it's not like playing a regular Strat either. 

I've got one of each, both made by Warmoth.  They're both conversion scale.  It's like night and day between em.
There's the pickup type, bridge type, wiring, front pickguard cavity vs. rear rout, and the fact that the Strat pickups are laid out a totally different way than the typical LP humbuckers. 

I notice when I go to shops and play Gibsons and Fenders that 1) my guitars are better and 2) neither one feels exactly the same as the guitar they're emulating.  But honestly, I think the LP seems closer to a traditional LP than my Strat feels to a traditional Strat except that mine doesn't have that obnoxious neck tenon in the way. 

 

[swarfrat]

One factor left out of this discussion is the dorky headstock.

In all seriousness though - there's more leeway in the Fender shapes, because they've already been copied to death. If you build a 'Tele' with a 6 point trem, 3 singles, 5 way switch, and a tummy cut - I'd call it a single cutaway strat. If you put the same thing on an Iceman, I'd call it a wierd iceman. Is my guitar a Strat? The neck and body shapes are the only thing that make it so.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Actually Daze, I was discussing it as a production technique
the reference to sound was because it really has no major issue
and I agree, it has be pounded to death, but remember, not all the guys here have seen those discussions, a lot of guys it is still new to them. One thing you have to understand about knowledge is everyone has a different degree of it, so even though I may be to the point of being sickened with a bit of info, It can be new to others, so I need to just sit back and let them discuss it. Otherwise how would they learn.

Quite true, but I will say the things I do like most about the neck-through design are that on most of them the access to the higher frets is easier and they just have a really solid feel to them...at least my Jackson does.

As for sustain, many people are adamant the neck-through design provides much more than what a bolt-on or set-neck design does, but I disagree.  My Warmoth is a bolt-on (obviously) and it will sustain for DAYS.  The sustain of that guitar is incredible and will sustain just as well as what my Jackson will.

 

[hannaugh]

Sometimes I wonder how much sustain people think they need.  Who cares if your guitar sustains a note for 20 mins when you'll never need it to? 

It's like some people have seen Spinal Tap too many times and they think they should be able to "go out and have a bite" and come back to find it still ringing.  I can understand not wanting 2 second crappy sounding decay, but after you have certain amount of sustain who cares?

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Sometimes I wonder how much sustain people think they need.  Who cares if your guitar sustains a note for 20 mins when you'll never need it to? 

It's like some people have seen Spinal Tap too many times and they think they should be able to "go out and have a bite" and come back to find it still ringing.  I can understand not wanting 2 second crappy sounding decay, but after you have certain amount of sustain who cares?

I care.  I play a lot of Metal, so sustain is needed.  I don't need to go get a Sustainiac or something, but I do care for a guitar that sustains nicely.  Sustainers are nice for party tricks but other than that, I find them just kinda...useless.

 

[Cagey]

Sometimes I wonder how much sustain people think they need.  Who cares if your guitar sustains a note for 20 mins when you'll never need it to? 

Ask a Les Paul owner.

Sustain is a Good Thing. You don't always need it, but it's good to have available. It's a natural form of compression. You hit a chord, and it's just there for as long as you need it. Even if you don't need it, it makes everything even. Makes for good percussion if you wanna do that chunka-chunka-chunka thing. It evens out your leads. If you don't hit a note as well as you'd like to, it's ok. It still comes out nicely. Hit it too hard, same thing. If you can stay below the 15th fret or so, seemingly perfectly executed screaming leads are child's play.

Problem is, it comes at the cost of tone and dynamics, so you'll rarely see blues players on Les Pauls. You can do it - look at Jimmy Page - but a Les Paul isn't usually a blues player's go-to guitar.

On the other hand, the miracle of modern electronics lets you do much of that on a Strat-style fiddle any more, which is why that design continues to lead the pack. It's more utilitarian.

 

[hannaugh]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against having good sustain, and I know it's important, but what is the difference between a guitar that will sustain for 20 mins vs. 19 minutes?  Both have plenty.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against having good sustain, and I know it's important, but what is the difference between a guitar that will sustain for 20 mins vs. 19 minutes?  Both have plenty.

Why buy a Ferrari if you live in NYC?  You'll be doing nothing but sitting in traffic. 

It's just a matter of preference for most people.  For me, I'd buy the one that sustained for 20 minutes "just because."

My first guitar, as crappy as it was, had a tremolo.  My next two guitars have hardtails.  I was determined to have a guitar with a Floyd, so when I had spec'd my Warmoth I chose that option.  You couldn't pay me enough to own another guitar with a hardtail.  If a guitar doesn't have a floating Floyd, I won't do so much as look at it.

See?  Just a matter of preference.  :cool01:

 

[Jusatele]

A lot of the preferences also are the style of music you play
I play jazz and blues, do not have much use for a wammy bar
love the hardtails
hollow bodies have a certain tone I seek out for some stuff, metal guys would not be able to control the feedack with the way they set their gain on a Jazz box.
I like a good sustain for the decay in it, not the doubling sound
I use distortion to enhance the tone, not as a vehicle to carry the tone
I have only 1 guitar with humbuckers, they are not my cup of tea on most bodies
the biggest sound I chase is natural chorus, so I like Stereo amp setups
All of these however do not effect what I think a guitar is. I see it as how they feel and the vibe I get while playing them as the most important thing. Yes I have picked up some guitars that were a certain type and said to myself that the guitar just was not right. In other words it did not feel like that type of guitar.
And when it boils down to it, comfort with the style rules the most with me. I have guitars of a lot of types, a 335, 2 strats, 2 teles, 1 PRS style, and for some stupid reason, I grab a Tele first.
so for me what makes a tele a tele, total comfort in my hands, familiarity and tonal control
a strat a strat, easiest guitar in the world to play, personality of a presidential candidate, will say anything
A LP, Big fat and heavy,tone for days but my back is going to hurt
I PRS carved top, Sweet, tone for days, smooth, but give me my tele in 20 minutes please
A 335, Early rock and southern rock all the way
Jazz Box, real bulky but wow what a clean clear sound. nothing matches it.

So, if I was to say how I think of them, that is it, but if I was to describe one, well I posted that earlier

but overall, I think preference will rule our decisions, and that includes sound or comfort. Style? I think hero worship leaves you once you hit a certain level of play. After that Style is no longer important, it is the sound you want, after all every style of music has examples of most kinds of guitars.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

A lot of the preferences also are the style of music you play
I play jazz and blues, do not have much use for a wammy bar
love the hardtails
hollow bodies have a certain tone I seek out for some stuff, metal guys would not be able to control the feedack with the way they set their gain on a Jazz box.
I like a good sustain for the decay in it, not the doubling sound
I use distortion to enhance the tone, not as a vehicle to carry the tone
I have only 1 guitar with humbuckers, they are not my cup of tea on most bodies
the biggest sound I chase is natural chorus, so I like Stereo amp setups
All of these however do not effect what I think a guitar is. I see it as how they feel and the vibe I get while playing them as the most important thing. Yes I have picked up some guitars that were a certain type and said to myself that the guitar just was not right. In other words it did not feel like that type of guitar.
And when it boils down to it, comfort with the style rules the most with me. I have guitars of a lot of types, a 335, 2 strats, 2 teles, 1 PRS style, and for some stupid reason, I grab a Tele first.
so for me what makes a tele a tele, total comfort in my hands, familiarity and tonal control
a strat a strat, easiest guitar in the world to play, personality of a presidential candidate, will say anything
A LP, Big fat and heavy,tone for days but my back is going to hurt
I PRS carved top, Sweet, tone for days, smooth, but give me my tele in 20 minutes please
A 335, Early rock and southern rock all the way
Jazz Box, real bulky but wow what a clean clear sound. nothing matches it.

So, if I was to say how I think of them, that is it, but if I was to describe one, well I posted that earlier

but overall, I think preference will rule our decisions, and that includes sound or comfort. Style? I think hero worship leaves you once you hit a certain level of play. After that Style is no longer important, it is the sound you want, after all every style of music has examples of most kinds of guitars.

My "collection" isn't as versatile.  Most of my guitars are geared towards the Rock/Metal genre. 

My Warmoth does it all.  It's alder/maple so the brightness is there in abundance.  It has a D-Activator neck pickup which provides a pretty warm tone.  It has a Super Distortion in the bridge location, which provides a lot of bite and raunchy distortion.  It's also very comfortable, very well-balanced, the controls are where they won't get in the way while chugging heavily or strumming up/down super-quickly, and fairly light.

If I want super thick and sludgy/heavy distortion I turn to my Jackson KV2.  It's arguably the "most Metal" guitar on the planet.  After playing the Warmoth and then playing the KV2 though, I'm ready to set it down.  The Warmoth's distortion is so much clearer.  By comparison, the Jackson sounds really muddy.  As for the neck on the Jackson, it is nothing short of amazing and I would die to have that neck on all my guitars.

Then I have another Jackson...a JS32 model.  This one's my "beater" guitar.  I take this one to my parents' house, guitar lessons, out for the occasional jam in a cold, crowded garage...you know the drill.  It's the guitar I like but it's not so expensive I'm worried about swatting a microphone stand with the rear wing of it.  It's preferable I don't, but it's not the end of the world if I do.  It plays alright, sounds alright, and it's comfortable.  It fits its purpose.

Then there's the B.C. Rich Mockingbird.  Quite honestly, the only reason I hold on to this hot-pink/fuchsia nightmare is because it is my first "real" guitar.  It's top heavy, the pickups are weak, and well, it's...hot pink.  :doh:  I like the neck on it but the thing doesn't stay in tune to save its life, it has the occasional dead fret, and it's just...yeah.

We're all familiar with the Tele.  I love it more for the way it looks than anything else.  While it has other nice attributes like its sound and feel, I just don't feel like I can play what I want to play on it.  It just isn't a "Metal" guitar, so it doesn't see much action unless I slow things down from time to time.  I do like its bluesy, "Tele sound."  In the end, I think it needs a professional setup in order for me to get more out of it.  I'm also on the fence about the blocky body.  Maybe a Warmoth Tele with a tummy-cut would do me well...and a Floyd Rose.  :cool01:

I would love to have a Tele built for Metal; humbuckers, floating Floyd, and just balls to the wall, METAL!  arty07: :headbang1: arty07:

 

[Jusatele]

being a hair metal and megadeath fan I could not see using a Tele for metal
I did have a MIJ Fender HM Tele in the 80s, had a licensed by floyd and 2 humbuckers
and it just did not fit onstage with all the other spandex derived gear, so I played a Hamer

Life goes on, Hair Metal went away and I sold that guitar, actually both of those guitars

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

being a hair metal and megadeath fan I could not see using a Tele for metal
I did have a MIJ Fender HM Tele in the 80s, had a licensed by floyd and 2 humbuckers
and it just did not fit onstage with all the other spandex derived gear, so I played a Hamer

Life goes on, Hair Metal went away and I sold that guitar, actually both of those guitars

Meh, never into spandex here...other than riding a bike, but that's a different scenario altogether.  Despite being adamant I would "never wear spandex," that changed after I got my shorts caught on the seat of a mountain bike, causing me to get "stuck" and tumble down a hill like Humpty Dumpty.  :help:

There are a few guys in Metal playing Teles, most notably John 5 and Jim Root.

 

[Jusatele]

Interesting, never considered John 5 metal
More like heavy pop
I do say some of his songs really rock. Marilyn Manson was one of my favs for a while.

 

[Tipperman]

You were into Metal, Jim? Should check out Opeth.

I think my favorite Metal guitar is.... a PRS Custom 22. Yeah.

 

[Jusatele]

Love my Custom 22, just a great guitar, plus mine has a ten top,it is very pretty