What is so great about having an American made guitar?

[RockStarNick]

One more thing: for the most part, this thread is all about OPINIONS.  I have mine, other people have theirs.

But Doughboy, I'm still going to argue on this one: Duncan standard line, Shop Floor Custom, and Duncan Custom Shop pickups are MADE in the USA.  Your tech/distributor/store - whomever you ordered it from - is misinformed - or knows a secret that no one else knows.

But think about it. It makes sense for Epiphone to hire a Chinese Factory to build 1,000,000 Les Pauls.

Why would Duncan outsource the production of your pickups to China?

Could some of the components be coming from another country?  Who knows. But they are made by Americans, in America.  Specifically, Maricela Juarez, who runs the custom shop, and has been doing it for like 40 years, and I've spoken to her a dozen times. Great woman. Master pickup maker.  Give her a call and ask her.

 

[AprioriMark]

The Gibson discussion always makes me roll my eyes.  Before I get into that, I will say that there are some Asian guitars (FujiGen anyone?) that are, as a whole, superior or equal to Gibsons.  I'll take the Pepsi challenge on that any day.  I own 5 Gibsons and 8 Fujigen guitars.  Can any of you provide similar "I speak with my wallet" opinions?  Lol.  By the way, RockstarNick's comment about complaining about spending 2k on a Gibby and then spending 3k on a boutique turd rings true with me.  One of my buddies is "that guy" over and over again.

Anyway, I love and hate Gibson at this point.  My 89 J-45 is the best acoustic guitar I've ever played.  I also own a 73 Custom that is a hunk of crap; it is inferior in every way imaginable.  My problem with Gibson is 1) Quality Control 2) pricing and 3) vision.

1) I have played 5k Gibsons that had finish flaws that a Chinese copy wouldn't let out of the factory.  Some of their bodies are way too heavy (crap wood) or dull and lifeless (crap wood?  I sense a theme). 
2) I'd pay 3k for a guitar if it was beautiful wood, great electronics and perfectly crafted, but Gibson often makes the mistake of assuming that the name will make me unable to see the flaws.  Have some pride, asshats.
3) Look at the garbage they're dumping out as "new products."  Come on guys; build quality.

That being said, my LP Classic is one of my "go to" guitars, and the craftsmanship is amazing.  That and my J-45 are shining examples of what Gibson should be.

As an aside, does anyone still use thick poly as a finish?  I just helped a friend strip an Epi LP for refinishing, and it was nice and thin. 

-Mark

 

[elfro89]

A tech friend of mine says the biggest problem he's found in many of the modern Gibsons has been the wiring, poor soldering and the likes. Not a huge deal and easily fixed, but out of the shop brand new... you would be a little crazy not to ask at least a few questions. Obviously they can't be applied to every Gibson every made recently but it seems like a recurring theme for many. Having said that I've never really had a problem with Gibson, mainly because I'm not a lover or hater, I'm indifferent when I play one, none have made me feel totally at ease when I play, could be that I'm not used to it but my Parker Fly is hard to beat, never felt more at ease on a guitar and my playing has really benefited from it and have never been as happy with my sound. All thanks to how comfortable I find it. 

 

[RockStarNick]

Well, I WILL agree that some of Gibsons newer  models coming out are just plain stupid.  All their faded nonsense. The Firebird X. Etc, etc.

And again, I know I'm playing devil's advocate here.  I would never, ever, ever spend $3K on a Gibson Custom shop piece. Let it be known.  That being said, I have played quite a few, and have yet to come across one of these horrific finishing flaws that everyone seems to speak of.

 

[mayfly]

Well, I WILL agree that some of Gibsons newer  models coming out are just plain stupid.  All their faded nonsense. The Firebird X. Etc, etc.

And again, I know I'm playing devil's advocate here.  I would never, ever, ever spend $3K on a Gibson Custom shop piece. Let it be known.  That being said, I have played quite a few, and have yet to come across one of these horrific finishing flaws that everyone seems to speak of.

I've seen those finish flaws.  A brand new gibson ES335 "Alex Lifeson" model with sanding burnthroughs.  On the FRONT of the guitar.  That particular guitar also had a vibrato that was amazingly poorly setup.  Brand new gibson custom shop guitar worth 5 grand.  shame really.

My own 79 LP gold top was not a good guitar - but that was made during the nasty norlin era and a direct comparison to today's Gibsons should not really be made (although I just did :headbang

So - who's in for buying a heritage?

 

[RockStarNick]

ALSO: This is not blowing smoke up Warmoth's ass, but in relation to this thread, the best finishing that I'VE seen lately has been the bodies that I've ordered from Warmoth.

You wanna talk about impeccable?  My W stuff makes some of the fender finishes look like chump change!

 

[lafromla1]

I have to say that even though I love every one of my Warmoth's, my MIA Artist Series Clapton Strat probably feels the best in my hand.  I also have a Jimmie Vaughan Strat (American parts assembled in Mexico) that feels almost as good as my Warmoth's. Strange how the Clapton and Vaughan strats both have the V neck in one-piece maple, yet the Clapton one just feels more rounded and smoother.

 

[Jusatele]

There is so much mis-information in this thread it's not even funny.

#1. SEYMOUR DUNCAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE THEIR PICKUPS TO CHINA.  True, their "Duncan designed" line (which is made for cheaper import guitars) is outsourced. They never tried to hide that.  Everything else is made in California, USA.  And their Custom Shop pickups are not wound in China, that's just absurd.  Why would a company take a one-off order, and have ONE of them produced over in a Chinese factory? Silly.  False. Check your facts.

#2. ANALOGMAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE HIS WORK TO CHINA. he offers some particular pedals that are chinese made analog delays that HE TWEAKS AND MODS in AMERICA, and improves upon them.

And lastly, contrary to popular belief

#3. ALL GIBSONS ARE NOT "OVERPRICED GARBAGE". I've read the arguments over, and over, and over again that "Gibson quality is down the tubes!!!"  The main problem is that people are confusing PLAYABILITY with QUALITY.   You can go to Guitar Center, and pick up a $2K Gibson Les Paul that's setup like garbage, and a $300 Chinese Epiphone that just so happens to be set up well, and of course, the Epi will *play* better.  Does that make it a better guitar?  F*ck no.  It means that by pure luck, the Epiphone's nut slots were cut properly and the frets were leveled properly.  

Take a $2000 Gibson, and a $500 (insert Asian made LP Copy here) to a great tech. Have him set both guitars up IDENTICALLY.  Play both.  Unplugged. Listen to the resonance of the wood, the way it vibrates in your hands, the tone and sustain of it.  If you STILL think that the Asian made, drenched-in-poly finished copy is a "better" guitar, then I will argue that you really don't know what you're listening for in the first place.  And if you think the "fit and finish" of a $300 Chinese guitar is better than a $3000 USA guitar, you need glasses.

DISCLAIMER:  I'll admit: I've played a bunch of Epiphones that DID impress me. A lot. And for the money, they're an absolute STEAL.  The problem is that for every great one, there's 10 duds.  But there ARE great ones out there. But to say that they're *better* than a $3000-4000 Custom Shop USA made instrument is absolutely ludicrous.

"Gibson is ripping everyone off!!!" I find this statement hilarious.  People think it's absurd to charge $2000 for a guitar with a glued in neck, carved maple top, binding on neck and body, inlays, etc... but will drop $3000 on a relic'd Partsocaster from the hot boutique Tele-builder of the moment.   Do you realize how much more time, skill, and labor is involved with making a LP over a Tele?  It's craziness.  In my mind, the REAL guys who are ripping people off are the Fender custom shop.  $6000 dollars for a bolt-on tele?  Come on.  Ridiculous.  

I apologize for the heated tone, but threads like this make my blood boil sometimes because people just get on the "Overpriced USA Guitars" bandwagon.  When in reality, they're just trying to make themselves feel better about the fact that they can't afford the guitar that they really want.  

I call a spade a spade:  SOME Asian made guitars are excellent values FOR THE MONEY.  They're nice instruments that can be well made, and a nice alternative to higher priced USA counterparts.  Are there SOME examples out there that, by chance, MAY be better than a USA guitar?  Perhaps. But to blindy say "Gibsons are overpriced junk, my asian copy is just as good" is ignorant.

claim what ever you want. But when I go to GC and pick up a 3800 dollar 335 and find glue that has weeped out of the neck joint and was never taken off I scream bad QC. when I plug it in and the pot is scratchy and it is a brand new guitar, I scream GC, when I but a guitar costing over 1000 dollars I expect a primo neck set up,not to be told that will cost me 300 bucks.

Gibson is dealing with shiite, setting it up like shit and fully expecting the public to buy it because of their name, they have out grown their QC and do not care.

The reason PRS is obtaining more and more of the Gibson market on a daily basis is because PRS is offering what Gibson did 15 years ago. Gibson is living on reputation and that is going down every time they show a guitar to someone who knows.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

ALSO: This is not blowing smoke up Warmoth's ass, but in relation to this thread, the best finishing that I'VE seen lately has been the bodies that I've ordered from Warmoth.

You wanna talk about impeccable?  My W stuff makes some of the fender finishes look like chump change!

...And my W finish looks like it belongs on a $100 Rogue.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

There is so much mis-information in this thread it's not even funny.

#1. SEYMOUR DUNCAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE THEIR PICKUPS TO CHINA.  True, their "Duncan designed" line (which is made for cheaper import guitars) is outsourced. They never tried to hide that.  Everything else is made in California, USA.  And their Custom Shop pickups are not wound in China, that's just absurd.  Why would a company take a one-off order, and have ONE of them produced over in a Chinese factory? Silly.  False. Check your facts.

#2. ANALOGMAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE HIS WORK TO CHINA. he offers some particular pedals that are chinese made analog delays that HE TWEAKS AND MODS in AMERICA, and improves upon them.

And lastly, contrary to popular belief

#3. ALL GIBSONS ARE NOT "OVERPRICED GARBAGE". I've read the arguments over, and over, and over again that "Gibson quality is down the tubes!!!"  The main problem is that people are confusing PLAYABILITY with QUALITY.   You can go to Guitar Center, and pick up a $2K Gibson Les Paul that's setup like garbage, and a $300 Chinese Epiphone that just so happens to be set up well, and of course, the Epi will *play* better.  Does that make it a better guitar?  F*ck no.  It means that by pure luck, the Epiphone's nut slots were cut properly and the frets were leveled properly.  

Take a $2000 Gibson, and a $500 (insert Asian made LP Copy here) to a great tech. Have him set both guitars up IDENTICALLY.  Play both.  Unplugged. Listen to the resonance of the wood, the way it vibrates in your hands, the tone and sustain of it.  If you STILL think that the Asian made, drenched-in-poly finished copy is a "better" guitar, then I will argue that you really don't know what you're listening for in the first place.  And if you think the "fit and finish" of a $300 Chinese guitar is better than a $3000 USA guitar, you need glasses.

DISCLAIMER:  I'll admit: I've played a bunch of Epiphones that DID impress me. A lot. And for the money, they're an absolute STEAL.  The problem is that for every great one, there's 10 duds.  But there ARE great ones out there. But to say that they're *better* than a $3000-4000 Custom Shop USA made instrument is absolutely ludicrous.

"Gibson is ripping everyone off!!!" I find this statement hilarious.  People think it's absurd to charge $2000 for a guitar with a glued in neck, carved maple top, binding on neck and body, inlays, etc... but will drop $3000 on a relic'd Partsocaster from the hot boutique Tele-builder of the moment.   Do you realize how much more time, skill, and labor is involved with making a LP over a Tele?  It's craziness.  In my mind, the REAL guys who are ripping people off are the Fender custom shop.  $6000 dollars for a bolt-on tele?  Come on.  Ridiculous.  

I apologize for the heated tone, but threads like this make my blood boil sometimes because people just get on the "Overpriced USA Guitars" bandwagon.  When in reality, they're just trying to make themselves feel better about the fact that they can't afford the guitar that they really want.  

I call a spade a spade:  SOME Asian made guitars are excellent values FOR THE MONEY.  They're nice instruments that can be well made, and a nice alternative to higher priced USA counterparts.  Are there SOME examples out there that, by chance, MAY be better than a USA guitar?  Perhaps. But to blindy say "Gibsons are overpriced junk, my asian copy is just as good" is ignorant.

claim what ever you want. But when I go to GC and pick up a 3800 dollar 335 and find glue that has weeped out of the neck joint and was never taken off I scream bad QC. when I plug it in and the pot is scratchy and it is a brand new guitar, I scream GC, when I but a guitar costing over 1000 dollars I expect a primo neck set up,not to be told that will cost me 300 bucks.

Gibson is dealing with shiite, setting it up like shite and fully expecting the public to buy it because of their name, they have out grown their QC and do not care.

The reason PRS is obtaining more and more of the Gibson market on a daily basis is because PRS is offering what Gibson did 15 years ago. Gibson is living on reputation and that is going down every time they show a guitar to someone who knows.

+1 on all accounts; my feelings, exactly.  My $250 Squier J-Bass looks nicer than some of the $3000 Gibsons I've seen.  What's up with that?  :icon_scratch:

 

[Tipperman]

Funny, the only Gibson I had that I liked was a Faded SG (I sorta liked my wine red LP, but not as much as the SG) I think the faded finish idea is stupid, but I like the way it feels. They have some new LP with p90s out in a faded finish with terrible relicing. While I liked the finish, the chambering made it feel really light to me which I didn't care for too much, and the guitar wasn't really set up at all, pickup routes were kinda terrible too.

Still, I liked how the faded finish FELT, but not the appearance.