What is so great about having an American made guitar?

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I like to buy American because I'm American living in America.  My Warmoths, my small guitar rig, and bass rigs are also MIA.  Now we can, and I have, get nitpicky on what the definition of MIA is.  You don't have to look far with electronics to find non-domestically aquired parts in the guts.  Wiki (which is only as accurate as those contributing) says the idea, the final point of assembly, or the biggest transformation involved in the mfg process can qualify something as American made.  And in the case of guitars made by any company, once they have any kind of exotic wood in the construction, MIA doesn't include the growing process, just the mfg process and location.  So, someone show us your all Brazilian Rosewood Tele that is made in the USA, or your American tube amp with Chinese tubes. 

 

[llmtelecaster]

At this point, owning a complete USA-built guitar is mostly about the nostalgia, especially when you're talking about Fender. I don't own Gibsons so I can't speak for them. The USA strats are indeed made with better quality products and craftsmanship, but it's nowhere near the level it should be, given the reputation they've built for themselves over the years.

 

[Doughboy]

It's actually next to impossible to buy a 100% made in America guitar anymore. A lot of the parts are made out of the country & only assembled in the USA. All you're really doing is paying a premium price for the "Made in USA" decal.

Btw, did you know that Seymour Duncan is out sourcing some of their PUs to Asia now? My last set of Custom Shop PUs, which were wound horribly btw, were made no where near the USA.

Even legendary boutique pedal makers like Analogman are out sourcing to China.

Either way, a good guitar is a good guitar is a good guitar as long as it's made with quality parts & assembled by a skilled craftsman.

 

[ptirman]

My new iMac was just shipped to me from China. I don't think anybody speaks about "Chinese made computers" at least in a derogatory way. Maybe "Made in America" has morphed into: designed in America, conceived in America or some derivation of such but even then, how many component parts of any whole product were dreamt up in another country or even made there? We're in a global world for sure. "We're all Humans now"

That being said I think my Zebranator is 100% made in America - actually not. The Zebrawood was grown in Africa.........but assembled here! :laughing11:

 

[crash]

Great thing about America is that there is a choice and usually the best product gets the sale.

That's only in theory.  In reality, Americans will pay a 10% lower price to buy something of 25% lower quality.  I think that's Walmart's business model.

 

[jeffreywt]

I don't think anybody speaks about "Chinese made computers" at least in a derogatory way.

I do but it has to do with China, not being made outside the USA. I love stuff made in Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam... China on the other hand has terrible quality control, at least from my experience working in IT.

All the hoopla about USA made was very relevant before other parts of the world began to industrialize. Plus, helping our economy is always nice. This could be a page long discussion but I think you all follow me in that USA is usually quality but we're certainly not the only skilled workforce in the world.

Limiting the discussion to Fender, I think their Mexican operation puts out high-quality guitars. The low price point is a bonus. I have a Mexican 60's classic series that plays as good as any Strat I have tried. After spending my time (which is money) on it to make sure it's setup properly, perhaps I could have bought a USA strat. That doesn't speak to the quality of materials  or basic assembly at all, only the amount of labor aka TLC it receives before being put on a truck.

 

[ptirman]

I should have said nobody speaks ill of Chinese made Mac computers :glasses9:

 

[m4rk0]

I think the fact that everything these days is made in China, makes it more special to own something American Made.. especially for Americans (or dutch people living in America)

I personally don't like that everything is outsourced, but on the other hand, I do like that affordable huge tv etc...

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

When it comes to wanting a product, I want it from the land it originated in.  That means I want a Marshall that was built in Britain, like I want a Tele that was built in the USA.  That's just the way it is for me.

I own a few USA-made guitars (Warmoth Star, Jackson KV2, Fender Tele Plus), and the tone, quality, appearance, and features of all of them is second to none (save for a crap finish job on one of them...).

I own a Japanese-made B.C. Rich Mockingbird (N.J. Series), and it's top-heavy, and plays kinda half-assed.

I own (and have owned...) a few Korean-made guitars, and they've been mediocre, at best.  My Epiphone acoustic and Alvarez acoustic are both Korean, and play like garbage.  They were both given to me, so I won't complain too much, but I wouldn't have purchased them myself.  That being said, it was the thought that counts, and I still have a soft spot for the Epiphone, as it was a gift from my wife 12 years ago for my 25th b-day.

I also owned a Korean Ibanez EX-180, which I couldn't wait to get rid of.  Surprisingly, I got $95 for it as a trade towards an India-made Jackson JS32 Warrior, which surpasses the Ibanez in every way, 50x's over.

I own an India-made Jackson JS32 Warrior, and that guitar is flawless, save for a body cavity that is a bit shallow, given that it is equipped with a floating tremolo.  It plays very nicely, appears to be well-built, and has flawless paint.  Not to mention, the sound far exceeds its $400 price.  It's nearly as good as one of the $1000 Japanese Jackson Pros, save for a few cosmetics which aren't present.

I own an Indonesian-made Squier "Affinity" J-Bass guitar, which plays pretty nicely after a minor setup.  I've played mine back to back with a $600-$700 Jazz Bass, and it runs a close 2nd.  It's part of a $250 gig pack.

Also worthy of mention, I played a Korean-made DBZ Imperial a while back, and it was pretty nice.  I couldn't believe it was Korean.  As good as this guitar sounded and played, I can only imagine how much nicer a USA-made model would be.  It was probably one of the nicest playing instruments I've played, but also one of the ugliest, shape-wise.

I also recently just played a Japanese-made Aria Pro II "LP," which was a neck-through model.  It looked very nice, and played extremely well.  Had I $645 in my pocket, I would have left the store with it.

From what I understand, and what people have been telling me, Korean guitars have come a long way, and are the way to go these days.  Personally, I don't care, because if I'm in the market for a nice guitar, I'm not going anything but USA, save for ESP, Ibanez, or Aria.

I already have my eyes set on something else, and that will be a Jackson USA Custom Shop Warrior, which of course, is made in America.

I'd want a Japanese-made Corvette just like I'd want a Mexican or Japanese Fender...I wouldn't.  Corvettes and Fenders are as apple pie, and that's the way I want them....AMERICAN.

 

[kboman]

I also recently just played a Japanese-made Aria Pro II "LP," which was a neck-through model.  It looked very nice, and played extremely well.  Had I $645 in my pocket, I would have left the store with it.

It's a real shame those don't look quite right to me (especially the headstock), as by all accounts they are excellent instruments and turn up used for sale pretty frequently.

 

[elfro89]

I'm just a bit confused, was the guy talked about in the OP saying that an American made guitar through a British amp is a classic American sound? I guess some would consider it so, in my mind it's a classic British sound, especially mid to late 60's and 70's.

Like anything else many ideas are developed in America and the products usually made in America until someone else does it better- like cars, much electronics, etc. I've only driven Japanese, Korean and German cars for years. I'd play a Chinese guitar if it was very well made.

Great thing about America is that there is a choice and usually the best product gets the sale.

Yes, since he basically said everything was American so I wanted to see how off the mark he was. I consider that sound very British too, so him agreeing that the most British of British guitar sounds was American made me realise this guy was clearly new and had no idea what he was talking about and was subsequently the moment I decided to end the conversion.

 

[Jusatele]

Elfro, it has been an interesting thread, made me rethink a few things about guitars.
I think that the only reason to pay for American, is if it does have the quality because of the resale value, besides that there are many a guitar at the quality of most American made guitars.
About American Guitars for me, PRS is putting out the best PRODUCTION guitars at the moment, Suhr stuff is real nice but the numbers are not up to be what I consider a production unit. Fender American stuff right now is the best quality they have ever put out, real nice stuff. However there are many guitars being made in Mexico,  Korea, Japan and other places that are at or could be at the level of these guitars, I find the hardware quality is the major factor holding those not at, back. The finish and everything else is there.
But then those held back a bit give us that bang for the buck pricing so many guys need. After all how many guys can afford a $999 to $5000 US price tag but want a nice guitar?

The guy has no ability to sell except mystic and you tricked him well.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I also recently just played a Japanese-made Aria Pro II "LP," which was a neck-through model.  It looked very nice, and played extremely well.  Had I $645 in my pocket, I would have left the store with it.

It's a real shame those don't look quite right to me (especially the headstock), as by all accounts they are excellent instruments and turn up used for sale pretty frequently.

I guess I didn't really notice the headstock on the Aria not looking right.  It doesn't stand out as something I really noticed...

 

[RockStarNick]

There is so much mis-information in this thread it's not even funny.

#1. SEYMOUR DUNCAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE THEIR PICKUPS TO CHINA.  True, their "Duncan designed" line (which is made for cheaper import guitars) is outsourced. They never tried to hide that.  Everything else is made in California, USA.  And their Custom Shop pickups are not wound in China, that's just absurd.  Why would a company take a one-off order, and have ONE of them produced over in a Chinese factory? Silly.  False. Check your facts.

#2. ANALOGMAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE HIS WORK TO CHINA. he offers some particular pedals that are chinese made analog delays that HE TWEAKS AND MODS in AMERICA, and improves upon them.

And lastly, contrary to popular belief

#3. ALL GIBSONS ARE NOT "OVERPRICED GARBAGE". I've read the arguments over, and over, and over again that "Gibson quality is down the tubes!!!"  The main problem is that people are confusing PLAYABILITY with QUALITY.   You can go to Guitar Center, and pick up a $2K Gibson Les Paul that's setup like garbage, and a $300 Chinese Epiphone that just so happens to be set up well, and of course, the Epi will *play* better.  Does that make it a better guitar?  F*ck no.  It means that by pure luck, the Epiphone's nut slots were cut properly and the frets were leveled properly.  

Take a $2000 Gibson, and a $500 (insert Asian made LP Copy here) to a great tech. Have him set both guitars up IDENTICALLY.  Play both.  Unplugged. Listen to the resonance of the wood, the way it vibrates in your hands, the tone and sustain of it.  If you STILL think that the Asian made, drenched-in-poly finished copy is a "better" guitar, then I will argue that you really don't know what you're listening for in the first place.  And if you think the "fit and finish" of a $300 Chinese guitar is better than a $3000 USA guitar, you need glasses.

DISCLAIMER:  I'll admit: I've played a bunch of Epiphones that DID impress me. A lot. And for the money, they're an absolute STEAL.  The problem is that for every great one, there's 10 duds.  But there ARE great ones out there. But to say that they're *better* than a $3000-4000 Custom Shop USA made instrument is absolutely ludicrous.

"Gibson is ripping everyone off!!!" I find this statement hilarious.  People think it's absurd to charge $2000 for a guitar with a glued in neck, carved maple top, binding on neck and body, inlays, etc... but will drop $3000 on a relic'd Partsocaster from the hot boutique Tele-builder of the moment.   Do you realize how much more time, skill, and labor is involved with making a LP over a Tele?  It's craziness.  In my mind, the REAL guys who are ripping people off are the Fender custom shop.  $6000 dollars for a bolt-on tele?  Come on.  Ridiculous.  

I apologize for the heated tone, but threads like this make my blood boil sometimes because people just get on the "Overpriced USA Guitars" bandwagon.  When in reality, they're just trying to make themselves feel better about the fact that they can't afford the guitar that they really want.  

I call a spade a spade:  SOME Asian made guitars are excellent values FOR THE MONEY.  They're nice instruments that can be well made, and a nice alternative to higher priced USA counterparts.  Are there SOME examples out there that, by chance, MAY be better than a USA guitar?  Perhaps. But to blindy say "Gibsons are overpriced junk, my asian copy is just as good" is ignorant.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

There is so much mis-information in this thread it's not even funny.

#1. SEYMOUR DUNCAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE THEIR PICKUPS TO CHINA.  True, their "Duncan designed" line (which is made for cheaper import guitars) is outsourced. They never tried to hide that.  Everything else is made in California, USA.  And their Custom Shop pickups are not wound in China, that's just absurd.  Why would a company take a one-off order, and have ONE of them produced over in a Chinese factory? Silly.  False. Check your facts.

#2. ANALOGMAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE HIS WORK TO CHINA. he offers some particular pedals that are chinese made analog delays that HE TWEAKS AND MODS in AMERICA, and improves upon them.

And lastly, contrary to popular belief

#3. ALL GIBSONS ARE NOT "OVERPRICED GARBAGE". I've read the arguments over, and over, and over again that "Gibson quality is down the tubes!!!"  The main problem is that people are confusing PLAYABILITY with QUALITY.   You can go to Guitar Center, and pick up a $2K Gibson Les Paul that's setup like garbage, and a $300 Chinese Epiphone that just so happens to be set up well, and of course, the Epi will *play* better.  Does that make it a better guitar?  F*ck no.  It means that by pure luck, the Epiphone's nut slots were cut properly and the frets were leveled properly.  

Take a $2000 Gibson, and a $500 (insert Asian made LP Copy here) to a great tech. Have him set both guitars up IDENTICALLY.  Play both.  Unplugged. Listen to the resonance of the wood, the way it vibrates in your hands, the tone and sustain of it.  If you STILL think that the Asian made, drenched-in-poly finished copy is a "better" guitar, then I will argue that you really don't know what you're listening for in the first place.  And if you think the "fit and finish" of a $300 Chinese guitar is better than a $3000 USA guitar, you need glasses.

DISCLAIMER:  I'll admit: I've played a bunch of Epiphones that DID impress me. A lot. And for the money, they're an absolute STEAL.  The problem is that for every great one, there's 10 duds.  But there ARE great ones out there. But to say that they're *better* than a $3000-4000 Custom Shop USA made instrument is absolutely ludicrous.

"Gibson is ripping everyone off!!!" I find this statement hilarious.  People think it's absurd to charge $2000 for a guitar with a glued in neck, carved maple top, binding on neck and body, inlays, etc... but will drop $3000 on a relic'd Partsocaster from the hot boutique Tele-builder of the moment.   Do you realize how much more time, skill, and labor is involved with making a LP over a Tele?  It's craziness.  In my mind, the REAL guys who are ripping people off are the Fender custom shop.  $6000 dollars for a bolt-on tele?  Come on.  Ridiculous.  

I apologize for the heated tone, but threads like this make my blood boil sometimes because people just get on the "Overpriced USA Guitars" bandwagon.  When in reality, they're just trying to make themselves feel better about the fact that they can't afford the guitar that they really want.  

I call a spade a spade:  SOME Asian made guitars are excellent values FOR THE MONEY.  They're nice instruments that can be well made, and a nice alternative to higher priced USA counterparts.  Are there SOME examples out there that, by chance, MAY be better than a USA guitar?  Perhaps. But to blindy say "Gibsons are overpriced junk, my asian copy is just as good" is ignorant.

You can talk about playability and quality being two separate things all day long, but I'm sorry, I'm not buyin' it.  When you're talkin' about a guitar that costs upwards of $2000, it better damned well do more than just "play."  It better have a perfect finish, perfectly cut nut, a smooth finish, tight knobs, etc.  $129 Squier Bullets are "playable," too, so that justification you're stating just doesn't hold up.

And the saddest part about it is that Gibson don't even make the best Les Pauls any longer.

Now, I'm sure the resident Gibson fans will all gang up on me, accusing me of being a "Gibson hater," but that's not the case.  I've seen and played some very nice Les Pauls, but not lately.  When a big number of people are noticing a drop in quality of a product, there's undoubtedly a drop in quality in that product.

I've seen $3000 Les Pauls with worse finishes on them than Epiphones, and even had the misfortune of seeing a limited reissue of a '58 Explorer that stickered for nearly $8000 with a sloppy clear-coat and glue-work.  Sorry, no excuse.  NONE.

 

[kendog]

There is so much mis-information in this thread it's not even funny.

#1. SEYMOUR DUNCAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE THEIR PICKUPS TO CHINA.  True, their "Duncan designed" line (which is made for cheaper import guitars) is outsourced. They never tried to hide that.  Everything else is made in California, USA.  And their Custom Shop pickups are not wound in China, that's just absurd.  Why would a company take a one-off order, and have ONE of them produced over in a Chinese factory? Silly.  False. Check your facts.

#2. ANALOGMAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE HIS WORK TO CHINA. he offers some particular pedals that are chinese made analog delays that HE TWEAKS AND MODS in AMERICA, and improves upon them.

And lastly, contrary to popular belief

#3. ALL GIBSONS ARE NOT "OVERPRICED GARBAGE". I've read the arguments over, and over, and over again that "Gibson quality is down the tubes!!!"  The main problem is that people are confusing PLAYABILITY with QUALITY.   You can go to Guitar Center, and pick up a $2K Gibson Les Paul that's setup like garbage, and a $300 Chinese Epiphone that just so happens to be set up well, and of course, the Epi will *play* better.  Does that make it a better guitar?  F*ck no.  It means that by pure luck, the Epiphone's nut slots were cut properly and the frets were leveled properly.  

Take a $2000 Gibson, and a $500 (insert Asian made LP Copy here) to a great tech. Have him set both guitars up IDENTICALLY.  Play both.  Unplugged. Listen to the resonance of the wood, the way it vibrates in your hands, the tone and sustain of it.  If you STILL think that the Asian made, drenched-in-poly finished copy is a "better" guitar, then I will argue that you really don't know what you're listening for in the first place.  And if you think the "fit and finish" of a $300 Chinese guitar is better than a $3000 USA guitar, you need glasses.

DISCLAIMER:  I'll admit: I've played a bunch of Epiphones that DID impress me. A lot. And for the money, they're an absolute STEAL.  The problem is that for every great one, there's 10 duds.  But there ARE great ones out there. But to say that they're *better* than a $3000-4000 Custom Shop USA made instrument is absolutely ludicrous.

"Gibson is ripping everyone off!!!" I find this statement hilarious.  People think it's absurd to charge $2000 for a guitar with a glued in neck, carved maple top, binding on neck and body, inlays, etc... but will drop $3000 on a relic'd Partsocaster from the hot boutique Tele-builder of the moment.   Do you realize how much more time, skill, and labor is involved with making a LP over a Tele?  It's craziness.  In my mind, the REAL guys who are ripping people off are the Fender custom shop.  $6000 dollars for a bolt-on tele?  Come on.  Ridiculous.  

I apologize for the heated tone, but threads like this make my blood boil sometimes because people just get on the "Overpriced USA Guitars" bandwagon.  When in reality, they're just trying to make themselves feel better about the fact that they can't afford the guitar that they really want.  

I call a spade a spade:  SOME Asian made guitars are excellent values FOR THE MONEY.  They're nice instruments that can be well made, and a nice alternative to higher priced USA counterparts.  Are there SOME examples out there that, by chance, MAY be better than a USA guitar?  Perhaps. But to blindy say "Gibsons are overpriced junk, my asian copy is just as good" is ignorant.

+1

 

[elfro89]

There is so much mis-information in this thread it's not even funny.

Yeah, a lot of the info is wrong, but some of their points are valid, and some have no point at all, just random useless info.

I think a lot of it comes down to personal preference. I've heard people swear by Gibson and people bash them. Both sides of the argument usually generate the, " your just so in love/full of loathing that you are blind/biased to the truth." I'm on the fence, when it comes to the price of the guitar, I need some pretty hefty convincing before I spend my doe on one. A guitar is a tool of ones expression, and the more you find a bond with it the better you find yourself creating. My opinion would be that you don't need to spend thousands to make a solid connection with your instrument. I can certainly tell you that in the studio it's impossible to tell the difference between a £5000 Gibson and and a £500 Epiphone, the sound difference is rooted squarely in the head. If a musician has that special connection with their guitar and only paid £500 for it, then I would say they are the overall winner since they now have the extra £4500 to mess about with. But if you need that extra £4500 for a guitar that you have that connection with then it's all good baby. Just don't expect people to kiss your ass cause you have a Custom Gibson, cause spending that amount on a guitar you don't feel any connection with, is silly.

 

[Doughboy]

There is so much mis-information in this thread it's not even funny.

#1. SEYMOUR DUNCAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE THEIR PICKUPS TO CHINA.  True, their "Duncan designed" line (which is made for cheaper import guitars) is outsourced. They never tried to hide that.  Everything else is made in California, USA.  And their Custom Shop pickups are not wound in China, that's just absurd.  Why would a company take a one-off order, and have ONE of them produced over in a Chinese factory? Silly.  False. Check your facts.

#2. ANALOGMAN DOES NOT OUTSOURCE HIS WORK TO CHINA. he offers some particular pedals that are chinese made analog delays that HE TWEAKS AND MODS in AMERICA, and improves upon them.

And lastly, contrary to popular belief

#3. ALL GIBSONS ARE NOT "OVERPRICED GARBAGE". I've read the arguments over, and over, and over again that "Gibson quality is down the tubes!!!"  The main problem is that people are confusing PLAYABILITY with QUALITY.   You can go to Guitar Center, and pick up a $2K Gibson Les Paul that's setup like garbage, and a $300 Chinese Epiphone that just so happens to be set up well, and of course, the Epi will *play* better.  Does that make it a better guitar?  F*ck no.  It means that by pure luck, the Epiphone's nut slots were cut properly and the frets were leveled properly.  

Take a $2000 Gibson, and a $500 (insert Asian made LP Copy here) to a great tech. Have him set both guitars up IDENTICALLY.  Play both.  Unplugged. Listen to the resonance of the wood, the way it vibrates in your hands, the tone and sustain of it.  If you STILL think that the Asian made, drenched-in-poly finished copy is a "better" guitar, then I will argue that you really don't know what you're listening for in the first place.  And if you think the "fit and finish" of a $300 Chinese guitar is better than a $3000 USA guitar, you need glasses.

DISCLAIMER:  I'll admit: I've played a bunch of Epiphones that DID impress me. A lot. And for the money, they're an absolute STEAL.  The problem is that for every great one, there's 10 duds.  But there ARE great ones out there. But to say that they're *better* than a $3000-4000 Custom Shop USA made instrument is absolutely ludicrous.

"Gibson is ripping everyone off!!!" I find this statement hilarious.  People think it's absurd to charge $2000 for a guitar with a glued in neck, carved maple top, binding on neck and body, inlays, etc... but will drop $3000 on a relic'd Partsocaster from the hot boutique Tele-builder of the moment.   Do you realize how much more time, skill, and labor is involved with making a LP over a Tele?  It's craziness.  In my mind, the REAL guys who are ripping people off are the Fender custom shop.  $6000 dollars for a bolt-on tele?  Come on.  Ridiculous.  

I apologize for the heated tone, but threads like this make my blood boil sometimes because people just get on the "Overpriced USA Guitars" bandwagon.  When in reality, they're just trying to make themselves feel better about the fact that they can't afford the guitar that they really want.  

I call a spade a spade:  SOME Asian made guitars are excellent values FOR THE MONEY.  They're nice instruments that can be well made, and a nice alternative to higher priced USA counterparts.  Are there SOME examples out there that, by chance, MAY be better than a USA guitar?  Perhaps. But to blindy say "Gibsons are overpriced junk, my asian copy is just as good" is ignorant.

SD does outsource. I ordered a set of PUs from their custom shop. They were basically their standard line but without the ugly SD decal. They took forever to come & the distributor let it slip that they were waiting for their order to come in from China. He then freaked out & changed the subject.

Analogman does outsource to China & a there are a lot of problems with these pedals due to lack of quality parts & a majority of the parts he uses are Asian. So what if he tweaks them in the USA & adds a 500% sticker price to it. That's not a made in the USA product.

As for Gibson. They are a joke now a days. Their days of making quality solid well priced guitars are long gone. I desperately wanted to buy a Gibson Les Paul. I literally played 50 of them in stores all over town. The majority had glaring flaws in the finish, poor binding jobs, horrid fretwork & were just absolute garbage for their premium price tag. Sure it had the prestigious Gibson Made in USA sticker on it but what a poor excuse for a once legendary & quality company.

I just bought a Carvin Les Paul at 1/4 of the price of a Gibson Custom Shop model that is STILL infinitely better than a Gibson. How can I NOT think Gibson is not ripping people off & resting purely on their laurels & past history.

 

[RockStarNick]

Efro - I agree with you there.  Choosing a Gibson, or any other brand, based on name only, is silly.  That's why I don't buy Fender's anymore. Because I've found something better. Way better. Warmoth.

And I will also agree that if you have a Gibby LP and an Epi Lp, setup the same, with the same pickups, for the most part, on a recording, they will sound 99% the same.  I will also agree with you that more important that the price tag of a guitar is the bond you can make with it.  If a Epi FEELS better to you than a Gibson, that's all that matters. Then buy it, and rock it out!!!

I guess, for me, what it comes down to in the end is the wood. I'm not buying a guitar for the things that can be changed on it.  Tuners, pickups, knobs. I'm buying it for the hunk of wood. And I know that people will claim that Gibsons finishes aren't perfect, flaws, etc.  But still, the most important thing for me is the TONE of the instrument, unplugged. That's what I'm spending my hard earned cash on. 

 

[Tipperman]

I agree about the Gibson being a joke. A friend of mine just bought a $2k Gibson, and the finish is very flawed. Many dents, etc. Also, for being "PLEK'd" the nut is very poorly cut, the frets are horrid. It's like walking on glass... but with your hands. On a fretboard. Sure, it's a very cool guitar and it sounds good with Lollar Imperials. Problem is, he shouldn't need to fix glaring problems in a brand-new, out-of-the-box Gibson guitar. It's a big what the heck, for me at least. I know I shouldn't be surprised, seeing as their QC is apparently gone out the window, but after playing PRS guitars and buying them, I really expect more int he 2k+ price range.