What do you think/know about Italy?

[Don]

Hey guys,
Italy is going through a very rough period right now. What do you think/know about us?
I'm trying to go beyond the "i like pizza and ferraris" talk here.
Please don't see this as a political debate. I'm just trying to know how much people from other countries are aware of what's going on in Italy and what Italy really is apart from mandolinis, greasy hair and mustaches.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I'm in the UK, for context.

I've been to Italy a bunch of times - just the touristy parts for the most part, Venice and Rome, but last year I went to Apulia. I've always had a lovely time - it's incredibly easy to get nice food and drink for good prices without loads of planning, the weather is nice. The people are usually very friendly.

I have a close friend who is Italian and she's really pissed off about the whole situation over there, but we haven't gone into it much. We're in a similar boat here in the UK in terms of just sheer despair at our government and the people who voted them in.

 

[Don]

I'm in the UK, for context.

I've been to Italy a bunch of times - just the touristy parts for the most part, Venice and Rome, but last year I went to Apulia. I've always had a lovely time - it's incredibly easy to get nice food and drink for good prices without loads of planning, the weather is nice. The people are usually very friendly.

I have a close friend who is Italian and she's really pissed off about the whole situation over there, but we haven't gone into it much. We're in a similar boat here in the UK in terms of just sheer despair at our government and the people who voted them in.

Eat and drink are the only things we're good at anymore. Expecially here in the south.
However, I really don't think that the UK is in the same boat. We're in the same economical situation as Greece, if not worse. But like Wile E. Coyote we'll keep floating on the abyss just with the force of our self-denial, until we'll be forced to look at our feet.
Gournalists are trying to make Grillo's 5 stars movent to look like a bunch of idiots led by a criminal and a demagogist, but the movement is really the only political party left. Everybody else is there only to shield the financial powers behind them. Lots of politics here have a bad criminal record or are on trial for some very serious crimes and they keep sitting in the Parliament (given that they care to go there, which is not so certain at all) and getting their 20000 € + benefits + a HUGE retirement pension. That would never even be conceivable anywhere on this planet that has electricity and running water.
I'm worried to say the truth. People here are starting to get violent, and the Government is in the situation i've told you, sleeping and eating everything they can. It's dangerous really.

 

[Alfang]

I was gonna start off by saying I've been to Italy, and Italys underground was a great help in world war II. I enjoyed my visit and loved the people

Seems the next WW, WWIII won't be countries against countries, it may be the people of these countries against their own govt.

 

[Updown]

What do I know ...... That it is shaped like a boot  :icon_biggrin: 

.... and that all Italians i've known down here in Oz, have been great people.

What do I think .... Would love to travel around their someday.  :icon_thumright: 

 

[Don]

What do I know ...... That it is shaped like a boot  :icon_biggrin: 

.... and that all Italians i've known down here in Oz, have been great people.

What do I think .... Would love to travel around their someday.  :icon_thumright: 

Italy is a perfect vacation site. But living here is a different story.
Sorry if i ask, but what does Oz mean? Is it a place or an anconym? or maybe it's Oz like the wizard?  :icon_biggrin:

 

[bagman67]

"Oz" is shorthand slang for "Australia."

 

[Don]

"Oz" is shorthand slang for "Australia."

Oh i see, it stands for Aus. Extremely interesting country btw. I love Molochs! :headbang:

 

[KaiserSoze]

Italy is an amazing place with a rich history and culture that is like no other in the world and its sad that its one of many countries being ruined by corruption and the rule of the few rather than the many.  Plus, they can say F-you better than anyone on the planet.  And even though Fonzi wasn't really Italian, he should have been. 

 

[Cagey]

"Fonzi" was short for "Fonzarelli". Sounds Italian to me. Unless you're talking about Henry Winkler, who played that role. He was born in New York, so he's 100% American, but to Jewish parents who emigrated from Germany.

No, I didn't know that; I had to look it up.

Another fun fact: did you know he's 67 years old? Geez. Where does the time go?

 

[Jumble Jumble]

100% American, 75% Italian, who cares. We're all 100% African when it comes down to it.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Not me I'm about 80% water. Maybe 20% cola when I come to think of it.

I never been to Italy. But I think your current unfortunate situation is not a lot different to what most countries in EU are facing. But talking further about that is getting into politics which is not allowed here.  :redflag:

But I think I know a lot about Italy and Italians without the clichés. But I also think that common knowledge about other countries are pretty good among us Europeans.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I hear they gave Cicily the boot...

 

[Don]

But I think I know a lot about Italy and Italians without the clichés. But I also think that common knowledge about other countries are pretty good among us Europeans.

Intriguing. Would talking further about that be not allowed too? 

I hear they gave Cicily the boot...

I don't understand. Do you mean that we kicked Sicily out of the Republic? If that's what you meant, it's a nonsensical lie.
If it was a joke, i'm afraid i didn't get it  :icon_scratch:

It's really interesting to listen to your opinions because it's fascinating for me to see how different cultures interact with each other. For example the people that have a strong Northern European influence in their culture (Usa included) find funny the way we Italians make hand gestures while speaking. We don't even notice that. Or you can't really understand what's the mafia's mentality, because it really exists only as an Italian thing. On the other hand we can't undestand Americans's love for guns. We are afraid of them, and if someone has one of them, he tries to hide it, because it's something regarded as stuff that only criminals do. From what i hear you Americans aren't willing to change your view about them even with the crazy shite that happens in your highschools.

I don't mean to open a debate about that, i was just making an example of cultural differences.  ccasion14:

 

[Dan025]

But I think I know a lot about Italy and Italians without the clichés. But I also think that common knowledge about other countries are pretty good among us Europeans.

Intriguing. Would talking further about that be not allowed too? 

I hear they gave Cicily the boot...

I don't understand. Do you mean that we kicked Sicily out of the Republic? If that's what you meant, it's a nonsensical lie.
If it was a joke, i'm afraid i didn't get it  :icon_scratch:

It's really interesting to listen to your opinions because it's fascinating for me to see how different cultures interact with each other. For example the people that have a strong Northern European influence in their culture (Usa included) find funny the way we Italians make hand gestures while speaking. We don't even notice that. Or you can't really understand what's the mafia's mentality, because it really exists only as an Italian thing. On the other hand we can't undestand Americans's love for guns. We are afraid of them, and if someone has one of them, he tries to hide it, because it's something regarded as stuff that only criminals do. From what i hear you Americans aren't willing to change your view about them even with the crazy shite that happens in your highschools.

I don't mean to open a debate about that, i was just making an example of cultural differences.  ccasion14:

lol bcause the main part of italy is shaped like a boot... and looks like it's kicking sicily...

about the guns. it's a big area of debate but the constitution protects our rights to own weapons and countries with guns are amoung both the safest and most dangerous places. in america it has been a necesity to life in the rural parts where people still kill there own food. hunting is also considered a sport and there is a big collector market for guns. they are like any other hobby or antique. it's a matter of american history and a passion for many. guns are also like americas version of a fine asian sword. japan has samuri stories, we have wild west stories. it's been a tool for survival not just to overcome the british but also to move west it's just embedded into our culture.

we unfortunately don't have the lowest gun crime rates. finland for instance has much lower gun violence and more gun owning people (becasue there all capable citizens have to serve in the militia though americans who own guns tend to have many thus we actually have more of them with fewer owners). maybe there is something we can take from finland. less cowboy mentality and more sense of duty there i guess. we also have problems with gangs and drug cartels in our cities and borders. if we didn't have a drug issue i think our gun crime would be lower.

the school shootings are only the tragedieds that bring light onto the violence. they are far from the norm and people who are likely to carry out such horrible acts would do as much damage with a home made bomb if guns weren't accessible. it's not totally unique to america, it's just ours are the most senseless. other countries have terrorism for the sake of greed disguised in the name of god or country. we hear enough about the middle east but africa has war lords and south america has cartels, italy, china japan and russia have mafia, ireland used to have the ira. humans can be violent. america has terrorism for the sake of revenge on mean people as petty as that is i don't se much difference in the mentality of the individuals that shoot schools for revenge as the ones that blow up a mosque because it was too liberal or something stupid like that. 

really guns can be a lot of fun. you should try it some time. don't let terrorism and crime stigmatize it for you too much.

anyway i am 100% american but genetically speaking i'm 13/16 from italy. over here you guys get a bad rep because of the mob (yet it is often romanticized in movies) and the show jersey shore (those guys aren't even italian or from new jersey, go figure) but when i here comments about italians being thieves or unintelligent i always say your welcome for the radio (Marconi) plumbing (rome) and everything beautiful (everything italian)...(not to mention our whole continent is named for an italian yet oddely a different italian is incorrectly credited for it's discovery) where i live it is strange because there are many people that just hate. where i am is like a cross roads from the city life and country life being close to nyc and also rural. there are a lot of "country boys" that hate on italian americans and talk about loving the country but the irony is all the farmers here have italian last names!!! the so called country boys never raised animals or harvested a feild, they grow up living like city people just dumber. the majority of the actual hard working country living people are from Italian families...

 

[Don]

I find that many of the problems that you Americans have with democracy depend on the fact that you assume law as the basis on which you can justify your freedoms. This creates a rubber wall between what is the real situation of the country and the needs of your people and what it should be in theory.
So even the fact that kids shoot each other for no good reason at school every three of four months doesn't move you very much. And it doesn't move you because you will that in a strange way it's still... Legal. it's like  Sure it's a national tragedy and a shame, but hey, the constitution says i can own a gun, so i suppose I'll have to shoot too one day or another right?" Wrong.
As you said, guns were a much needed tool when people shot their own food. 300 years ago. Wearing skirts. And wigs.  :icon_biggrin:
What i really wanted to say is you shouldn't see the Constitution as a Bible. It's just a piece of paper with some laws written on it. Deals made by the people for the people. Now the time has changed, and so has the people and the people's needs. Since the constitution is now in conflict with your own needs, you should change it and fix it (as long as it remains made by the people for the people) so you can leave happier togheter.
You don't need to fight wars and collect guns now. You need to reboot the economy and stop obesity before it kills you all.

 

[Don]

I mean you tend to consider the Law as the chief of the people and not the people as the chief of the Law Law is just a tool we can use to regulate our "social market". If you fix the prices in the market regardless of demand and supply, you're market it's going to fail eventually  :icon_smile:
And as an Italian who has to fight against the mafias and the raccomandations just to get a job i'm overqualified and underpaid for, i feel that's really a shame.
Cause i would like to dream of the golden USA as my granfather did.
But i can't. Because i know that now the situation there ain't that great either.

 

[Dan025]

well beleive it or not most of america is still so rural that hunting your own food is common. the states of montana and wyoming have fewwer than 3 people per km^2 alaska has less than 1! these people don't go into town and buy food becasue sometimes there is no town or they can't get there because of weather events. and that's assuming they have money for food. when it's that rural there aren't exactly jobs. you could never make guns illegal in many states because people would starve so it would have to be on a city level, it could never be federal, that's just a fact! there is no getting around that. even in the populated north east hunting is necessary because the deer population is out of control. they have no natural enemies and over run the area constantly getting hit by cars. but yeah you can sit there thousands of miles away and judge.

and it's certainly not every 3-4 months we see school massacres. gun violence is a much greater problem with inner city gangs and drug cartels. but as long as the low lives only kill each other and illegal immigrants people look the other way. the problem with this kind of criminal is that while it's easy to make more gun laws they don't comply with the gun laws that already exist. it's very hard to trace down and take all their guns. they already have them and get them through nefarious means. it might seem simply to just make something illegal but the reason these people shoot schools is because of mental illness, these kids have been just as well known to build bombs from common supplies. resources would be better spent figuring out why our youth is so angry and have psychopathic or sociopathic tendencies.

believe me, america has problems but gun laws won't fix them. our people are often undereducated and proud and i think the education level in america is a bigger problem than guns. but you wont find the ignorant people here. this forum has some of the best people you'll find on the internet though many of us have differing oppinions about political things.

 

[Don]

well beleive it or not most of america is still so rural that hunting your own food is common. the states of montana and wyoming have fewwer than 3 people per km^2 alaska has less than 1! these people don't go into town and buy food becasue sometimes there is no town or they can't get there because of weather events. and that's assuming they have money for food. when it's that rural there aren't exactly jobs. you could never make guns illegal in many states because people would starve so it would have to be on a city level, it could never be federal, that's just a fact! there is no getting around that. even in the populated north east hunting is necessary because the deer population is out of control. they have no natural enemies and over run the area constantly getting hit by cars. but yeah you can sit there thousands of miles away and judge.

The last thing you said made me think you were upset while answering. I didn't mean to judge so i'm sorry if you felt judged.
However that's significant because it shows what the gun issue means to you and how you think about it. That's what i find interesting.
I've never heard before that the USA were a rural country. Are you really saying that something like the 20% of the population are living relying only on their guns and bullets fighting against the wilderness for their daily survival, with no communications systems, no airplanes, no global trade, no Big Macs, no towns and no technology, in a sort of Modern Wild West?
I thought that that was a really rare thing nowadays. Something like 500.000 people over the 320.000.000 total maybe? That would be less than 1% of the total population.
If that were the case, i would think you exaggerated a bit before, wouldn't you?
And given that there are some people that need hunting tools, why don't you just take the right of owning guns out of the costitution and make laws that regulates them based on the situation of every single state? Wouldn't that work better?
I find that their is a contradiction in all this. I mean if you need guns for hunting, and you don't need handguns and assault rifles and pump action shotguns (a double barrel is enough) for hunting, why are them mass produced and sold to the public? I think that someone is making something out of your situation and wants things to stay the way they are.
And finally surely guns are just one of the issues you have, but it striked me as one of the most different aspects of our cultures.

 

[Don]

but you wont find the ignorant people here. this forum has some of the best people you'll find on the internet though many of us have differing oppinions about political things.

Yeah i know this place is awesome!  :icon_thumright: and you are demostrating it right now by talking in a civil manner with me.
Everyone is calm and cool here.
Even that grumpy old mister called Cagey had the patience to teach me a lot of things even though he probably didn't even notice being busy as he is being grumpy and nostalgic 'bout the good ole times lon' gone!  :laughing7: