Every time I wet sand my finish some spots look almost like finger print smudges. Does this mean my finish isn’t cured enough? I hear of people polishing with wet sanding micro mesh but it seems to dull the finish. I’m doing an all tru oil finish by the way and I know people will say you don’t need to wet sand... but dust keeps getting on it as it dries so I have to for a good finish
Wet sanding to buff out dust and such
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Cagey
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Sounds like the finish isn't cured. My understanding with oil is you have to apply it in very thin layers or it takes forever to dry.
Also, while micromesh abrasives are waterproof, I rarely hear of anyone using them wet. Being waterproof mainly means you can clean them by rinsing them off. Another thing is the abrasive is bonded to a more pliable substrate, and backing materials will have an effect on a performance. Softer substrates seem to be less effective on softer materials than hard. Then, you can't judge an abrasive's cutting ability by the grit size, that's just the size of the cutting particles. In other words, 400 grit aluminum oxide will cut differently than 400 grit garnet, which cuts differently than 400 grit silicon carbide, etc., so you can't just substitute one for the other and expect the same results.
For finish work, I've found that silicon carbide abrasives on a waterproof paper backing work the best. Using it wet usually prevents "loading" the paper so quickly, and acts as a lubricant that also suspends broken bits of abrasive particles to assist in the cutting. Micromesh works better for metal stuff like frets.
Also, while micromesh abrasives are waterproof, I rarely hear of anyone using them wet. Being waterproof mainly means you can clean them by rinsing them off. Another thing is the abrasive is bonded to a more pliable substrate, and backing materials will have an effect on a performance. Softer substrates seem to be less effective on softer materials than hard. Then, you can't judge an abrasive's cutting ability by the grit size, that's just the size of the cutting particles. In other words, 400 grit aluminum oxide will cut differently than 400 grit garnet, which cuts differently than 400 grit silicon carbide, etc., so you can't just substitute one for the other and expect the same results.
For finish work, I've found that silicon carbide abrasives on a waterproof paper backing work the best. Using it wet usually prevents "loading" the paper so quickly, and acts as a lubricant that also suspends broken bits of abrasive particles to assist in the cutting. Micromesh works better for metal stuff like frets.
stratamania
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You do need ideally very thin layers. Avoid overworking it. And it must cure.
If dust keeps getting on it the solution is to find an environment where you can put it so dust does not get on it.
If dust keeps getting on it the solution is to find an environment where you can put it so dust does not get on it.
Not much dust gets in it and it turned out nice with my maple neck but this dark roasted body shows mistakes a lot more. But my main question is will using micro mesh paper actually make a gloss? That’s what I read but it’s just dulling it. That led me to believe it’s probably not cured enough
Cagey
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I'm not an oil guy, but I suspect at some point you're going to have to shift to rubbing compounds and a buffer, or perhaps a french polishing technique. I've seen glossy oil finishes, but they're pretty rare and I'm not sure how they're achieved. It's not a super-hard finish, so I don't know if you'll ever get a high gloss finish like you can with lacquer or poly.
stratamania
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With respect, it is a little difficult to advise when not much information is given.
How long did you let it cure?
What grade of micromesh are you using?
Are you using it with a sanding block?
What liquid are you wet sanding with?
What was your process so far for applying the tru-oil?
How many layers?
Did you level while building the layers?
Then you mention dust...
"I know people will say you don’t need to wet sand... but dust keeps getting on it as it dries so I have to for a good finish"
After suggesting try a dust free environment, use thin coats and make sure it is cured...
"Not much dust gets in it and it turned out nice with my maple neck but this dark roasted body shows mistakes a lot more. But my main question is will using micro mesh paper actually make a gloss? That’s what I read but it’s just dulling it. That led me to believe it’s probably not cured enough"
Then it probably is not "cured". And it is not lacquer so different techniques apply. Like lacquer, it drys rather than cures.
One of the best resources of information and examples of good tru-oil finishes can be found at the link below. Particularly from the late user Quarter.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/how-do-you-get-a-high-gloss-from-tru-oil-finish.711780/
How long did you let it cure?
What grade of micromesh are you using?
Are you using it with a sanding block?
What liquid are you wet sanding with?
What was your process so far for applying the tru-oil?
How many layers?
Did you level while building the layers?
Then you mention dust...
"I know people will say you don’t need to wet sand... but dust keeps getting on it as it dries so I have to for a good finish"
After suggesting try a dust free environment, use thin coats and make sure it is cured...
"Not much dust gets in it and it turned out nice with my maple neck but this dark roasted body shows mistakes a lot more. But my main question is will using micro mesh paper actually make a gloss? That’s what I read but it’s just dulling it. That led me to believe it’s probably not cured enough"
Then it probably is not "cured". And it is not lacquer so different techniques apply. Like lacquer, it drys rather than cures.
One of the best resources of information and examples of good tru-oil finishes can be found at the link below. Particularly from the late user Quarter.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/how-do-you-get-a-high-gloss-from-tru-oil-finish.711780/
Try the truoil aerosol. It goes on thicker and gives you more material to work with. That makes it easier to get a glossy finish. You should be able to sand between your hand appled coats though. I'm not sure of your environment maybe try two coats per day. Take it slow. Good luck.
Cagey
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I'm not sure I understand. It's already super-glossy, but you just want it glossy, and it has hairs and whatnot in the finish?
If there are contaminants embedded in the finish, I'm not aware of any kind of sanding/polishing you can do to get rid of that, outside of stripping it and starting over. Preventing foreign material from settling on/in the finish is why people use spray booths and/or clean rooms. With wipe-on finishes, you don't need a booth, per se, but since it takes so long to dry some kind of isolation is good, and you also need to have clean applicators.
If there are contaminants embedded in the finish, I'm not aware of any kind of sanding/polishing you can do to get rid of that, outside of stripping it and starting over. Preventing foreign material from settling on/in the finish is why people use spray booths and/or clean rooms. With wipe-on finishes, you don't need a booth, per se, but since it takes so long to dry some kind of isolation is good, and you also need to have clean applicators.
You've got to sand or scuff your finish. It's the only way to get the contaminates out. You'll then want to build some more coats and polish it up. The you need to figure out what's in the finish and how it got there and fix that. What are you applying it with and what environment is it in?
stratamania
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Mandalie, nearly all of your posts contradict each other in some way. Are you serious or pulling people's legs?
stratamania
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They contradict each other because you ask one thing and then when you get a reply, you say that is not really the case it is more like this or that. Perhaps English is not your native language or something?
Now you mention orange peel, which is not possible with Tru-Oil when applied with a finger.
Did you look at the links and follow any of the advice provided?
Perhaps you either need to be more specific, post pics of the problem and take onboard the help offered. There is not much point asking for help if you either can not follow or do not want to follow the answers provided.
If your finish is that bad, sand it back, get some fresh Tru-oil and start again.
A pad of lint-free cotton similar to that used for french polishing would be better for application to a body.
Now you mention orange peel, which is not possible with Tru-Oil when applied with a finger.
Did you look at the links and follow any of the advice provided?
Perhaps you either need to be more specific, post pics of the problem and take onboard the help offered. There is not much point asking for help if you either can not follow or do not want to follow the answers provided.
If your finish is that bad, sand it back, get some fresh Tru-oil and start again.
A pad of lint-free cotton similar to that used for french polishing would be better for application to a body.
Tomatonator
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I'm in the process of doing a body with Tru oil having never finished or refinished a guitar before. I made the mistake of dabbing on too much for the 1st coat to avoid rubbing around the colour I have on it. That was a mistake as this stuff takes ages to dry if you use too much. I left it for over a month (winter) and gave up on one section and sanded that section off and started again.
Even putting it on thin, unless you have summer sun beating down I don't know how you get get more than one coat in a day the way I'm doing it. That said I'm aware you're supposed to wipe it on and wipe it off but that just wouldn't work without wrecking the colour I've done - at least until it has the 1st couple of dried layers for protection.
I think I'm on the right track now and hope to be done before the end of the year (just coming into summer). I do have to break out the tweezers to get rid of some bits that settle on it while drying even using 'lint free' digital camera sensor wipes to apply. I envy those with a dust free/controlled space for this job
That said I don't know that I would go with Tru oil again for another guitar... unless it was pure wood or a single colour that wouldn't suffer from wiping application.
Even putting it on thin, unless you have summer sun beating down I don't know how you get get more than one coat in a day the way I'm doing it. That said I'm aware you're supposed to wipe it on and wipe it off but that just wouldn't work without wrecking the colour I've done - at least until it has the 1st couple of dried layers for protection.
I think I'm on the right track now and hope to be done before the end of the year (just coming into summer). I do have to break out the tweezers to get rid of some bits that settle on it while drying even using 'lint free' digital camera sensor wipes to apply. I envy those with a dust free/controlled space for this job
That said I don't know that I would go with Tru oil again for another guitar... unless it was pure wood or a single colour that wouldn't suffer from wiping application.
Mr. Neutron
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With my recent alder Hybrid body I let my Tru Oil finish sit 4 weeks before I even thought about buffing or assembling. And it was finished with really light coats that usually had at least 12 hours or more of drying time between. The last couple of coats were with thinned out Tru Oil (about 60% Tru Oil and 40% mineral spirits).
I think with Tru Oil, and when someone is doing their first project with it, it can be easy to possibly apply it too thick, and too often. This results in something that'll take a very long time (months?) to cure. And I'm speaking from experience here. My first attempts at a wipe on finish were applied way too thick, and I had problems similar to what you describe.
One thing that helped me was to scuff lightly but thoroughly between coats with the gray (7448?) 3M ScotchBrite. This was basically because my old eyes have a tough time discerning between where I have applied the new coat on bigger areas like a guitar body. And it also helped get rid of some of the dust boogers and bugs that settled in my previous coats. You must wipe the body/neck down really well after this scuffing with a tack cloth, or hit it with compressed air, or both, like I did, to avoid getting more dust cooties in the finish.
Be patient.
I think with Tru Oil, and when someone is doing their first project with it, it can be easy to possibly apply it too thick, and too often. This results in something that'll take a very long time (months?) to cure. And I'm speaking from experience here. My first attempts at a wipe on finish were applied way too thick, and I had problems similar to what you describe.
One thing that helped me was to scuff lightly but thoroughly between coats with the gray (7448?) 3M ScotchBrite. This was basically because my old eyes have a tough time discerning between where I have applied the new coat on bigger areas like a guitar body. And it also helped get rid of some of the dust boogers and bugs that settled in my previous coats. You must wipe the body/neck down really well after this scuffing with a tack cloth, or hit it with compressed air, or both, like I did, to avoid getting more dust cooties in the finish.
Be patient.
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