VIP Flame Top

[Watershed]

So this came in the mail over the weekend:

Spectacular top, I think.  I wiped it down with naptha before taking the pic.

I was thinking of going Baritone on this build.

I was also going to try for a "Faded Blue Jean" color as seen on the new PRS Modern Eagle, but really don't know how they achieved the effect.

I imagine it's a combination of white, followed by blue.  But perhaps its blue, followed by white.
Perhaps the white should be oil based and the blue should be water based, etc.

I have some scrap flame maple that I was going to experiment with, but perhaps someone on here has already tried something like this?
I basically want to keep the contrast of the blue and white.

Anyone with pointers?

Thanks,
James

 

[Lucky #7]

That looks more like they did some sanding than painted anything white, but I am far from a finishing expert.  You need to get Tonar's attention to this thread.  That guy is a freaking wizard with finishes.

 

[tfarny]

As a guess (I've only dyed one guitar), it looks like natural maple and dye, but with the dye sanded back more than usual. Doesn't look like white to me.
It's not the best example, but here's my thread, maybe it'll be helpful. When I dyed it the first time, I didn't dilute enough and it was 'too black. Then I sanded back and for a while it looked a lot like that.
So, my guess would be; dye with a strongly concentrated dye, let it really dry out, then sand back to where you want it.
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=3373.0

 

[Nando Vallart]

Great body! :icon_biggrin:

 

[mayfly]

Great body! :icon_biggrin:

Why thank you!  oh you mean the guitar...

 

[kreig]

MMMMMMMMMMMMM Must get

Flame top.

 

[Nando Vallart]

Great body! :icon_biggrin:

Why thank you!  oh you mean the guitar...

 

[Tonar8352]

it looks like natural maple and dye, but with the dye sanded back

I agree. The hard grain of the wood is called the Flake.  With the sample you can see clearly on the Flake a small amount of the blue in the pours which white would have caused to look differently.  I suggest you get a really strong UV Resistant Blue Dye that you like and dye the top. Then sand it back with 320 paper going with the grain.  You should get that look dead nut.  Put a non-yellowing clear of your choice on top of it and you will have a beautiful guitar because that is a great piece of wood.

 

[Watershed]

Hey, thanks everyone for the feedback and comments.  I think I am convinced.
I have some scrap maple pieces with some degree of flame to them.
I'll try Tonar's suggestion and see what happens.

Do you think oilbased or waterbased stain will make a significant difference?

Thanks,
James

 

[kreig]

With flame, the grain goes both ways,juxtaposed, so which is the right "with the grain?" :icon_scratch:

 

[Tonar8352]

I would use the MEK Dye from here.  http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Dyes&NameProdHeader=Dye+Concentrates

Here is a sample of it on some flame.  In the picture the color looks like what I think you’re after but in real life it looks like it has a little too much aqua.  I did not have time to sand it back but do your test boards and then shoot the clear because it changes the color dramatically.  You might want to try the waterborne and aniline blue colors from LM also.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I was able to achieve that effect with a black dye on maple by doing what Tonar suggested.  Finding a good blue dye is tough, so I'd take the LMII suggestion as well.  As far as the question about grain, the grain goes in one direction and the figuring goes perpendicular to the grain, you will have to figure that part out...  The last thing I'd suggest is getting some Flame maple test pieces on eBay or the like.  You will learn quite a lot by trying the test pieces and in the end that will help out immensely for getting the effect you want.  No reason to make mistakes on a prime body like the one you got.  The project looks like fun, good luck.
Patrick

 

[Tonar8352]

Looking at the two pictures on the computer the blue you want looks a little more like the blue Jack used on his swamp base.  What you think Jack?  What ever you use I would make sure it is a dye because they are the only thing that will give you that depth.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks again for the tips, I'll be trying some of those MEK dyes.

Curious if anyone has experimented with bleaching wood?
The light areas in the picture in the first post seem lighter than natural maple. 
I'm wondering if the wood was first bleached to a white, then stained blue, then sanded back and then coated in clear.

I've done a little reading on the subject.
Seems like a peroxide based "A/B Bleach" is the way to go:
http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/using_wood_bleach.htm

From the article:
Lightening Wood

Removing the natural color of wood is best done with the two-part peroxide bleaches. These are available as "A/B" bleaches sold in most paint and hardware stores. The most common way to apply this product is to wet the wood thoroughly with part A (sodium hydroxide) then immediately apply part B (hydrogen peroxide). It's important that part A not sit too long before applying part B because sodium hydroxide will darken some tannin-rich woods like cherry and oak. You can also mix the two parts together and apply them at the same time, as long as you do it as quickly as possible after the two parts are mixed. Usually one application is all that's necessary, but another application may be needed to even out the bleaching effect. Some dark woods, like ebony, are not affected by this bleach which is an advantage if you want to bleach a wood that has ebony stringing. On some woods, particularly walnut, a greenish tinge may appear in some areas if the bleach is not applied evenly. To alleviate this problem, try to apply the bleach evenly and sparingly, just enough to make the wood wet. Do not flood the wood with bleach. Neutralize the alkaline effect of this bleach after the wood is dry by applying a weak acid like vinegar. Use white vinegar mixed one part vinegar to two parts water.

A/B bleach will remove all the natural color variations present in wood, so use them judiciously. Over - bleached woods will lack tonal variations and depth even if stained afterward. I use them only when matching sun-faded wood, or to provide a neutral base upon which I create a decorative finish like pickled oak or blond mahogany. When re-creating the fruitwood finish on bleached cherry explained above, I had to hand glaze selective areas during the finishing process to provide some color variation. A/B bleaches can be used to compensate for heartwood/sapwood variations, but I prefer to bring the sapwood in line with the heartwood by hand coloring or spraying the sapwood with a dye stain.

Anyone experiment with this?

Thanks,
James

 

[Tonar8352]

Hit your search bar above and type in wood bleach.  You will get all the posts that were done in regards to wood bleach including two I posted with pictures of the actual bleaching process.  Click on the thread that you want to read and it's all there.


PS Don’t bleach that beautiful piece of wood.  My opinion.

 

[tfarny]

James, I'm not all that sure that bleach is necessary but I could be wrong. It is the darker portions of the flame that will take the dye, and the lighter portions that will be resistant, so your wood will end up looking pretty white without bleach, I believe. And that is a great top.

 

[Watershed]

Once again, thanks for the tips.
I'll check out those posts Tonar....and heed your warning.

James