Trying to tame my damn Floyd (SOLVED!!!)

[Cederick]

Here's some pics of the nut and clamps... Does it look bad? My camera has a broken display so it's really hard to make good photos of details, and the high E and B string is quite digged into the nut and clamp.

Also, the strings was a bit flattened right under the clamps, not much but I could still see they have been clamped hard. Is that too hard, or is it normal?

(the clamps are in the correct order)

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Looks ok to me. Can you do the same thing with the saddles, with the clamping inserts removed?

 

[Cederick]

You mean on the bridge? Not sure, I have no more strings so I don't really want to remove the strings from the bridge....

I'm really not sure how hard to tighten the nut clamps either... I don't tighten it until there's no more room

Maybe I really need to test with new strings that hasn't been squished? Or does strings on Floyds always get like that?

 

[Jumble Jumble]

They'll always get a bit like that - it's fine. Just tighten the nut clamps with a finger and thumb on the allen wrench - don't torque it with your fist.  Consider what it's actually doing - just stopping the string from slipping through the nut. It doesn't need hundreds of pounds of pressure for that.

We only need to see the E string saddle. Depending on how many turns you have on the tuner, you may be able to slack it enough that you can remove the string from the bridge, take the photo, and then put it back in again.

 

[Cederick]

Sorry for the blurry picture. My camera display is broken so I took a bunch of pics, assumed I would have a decent and was stupid enough to put the strings back on and THEN look at the pictures on the computer. Anyway, this is the best one, and there's three "obvious" marks from the string wounds, but I'm really not sure if it's really bad or not... :dontknow: so out of curiosity I checked the A string as well just to be sure, and it had much less wear, but you could see there has been a string there.

I ASSUME it's only the black coating that's gone... :dontknow:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I don't know but I'm sure if the trem works good a Tremol-no cannot make it worse,

Exactly!  If you know how to properly set up a trem, the Tremol-no just gives you some additional options.
I used to have upwards of 12 guitars, when I lived in a house.  Now that I live in an apartment, a device like the Tremol-no allows me to have additional options for my favorite guitar.  I don't look at it as a fix to a bad setup, but, it can be the icing on the cake for a good setup.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I don't know but I'm sure if the trem works good a Tremol-no cannot make it worse,

Exactly!  If you know how to properly set up a trem, the Tremol-no just gives you some additional options.
I used to have upwards of 12 guitars, when I lived in a house.  Now that I live in an apartment, a device like the Tremol-no allows me to have additional options for my favorite guitar.  I don't look at it as a fix to a bad setup, but, it can be the icing on the cake for a good setup.

And if you have an oddball guitar, it give you those options on a guitar that you would have a helluva time trying to build another.  Like one with a 27" scale.  I have one on my seven with a Floyd, my only seven, my only Floyd, my only guitar with a 27" scale length.  I generally play with fixed bridges, but I need the trem for some stuff.  Makes the guitar a better tool for me.  Easy-peasy, and more importantly, done.
Patrick

 

[Cederick]

I guess you guys are out of ideas?

I have totally given up on fixing it myself, I will go to a guitar doctor to get it fixed. The problem is that I simply cannot afford it

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I had a post that had a ding on it.  You could feel it, and at times the whole trem would clunk, literally, back into place and the tuning would go hinkey.  However, it did not always go sharp.  It went out of tune one way or the other.  I turned the post a quarter turn, and it worked until I got a replacement.  And you could feel it with the bar, not a smooth feeling.
Patrick

 

[spauldingrules]

Just read this thread, and I may have the solution - MAKE SURE THE NECK IS SEATED PROPERLY.  Do the "loosen, then tighten" trick with the neck screws.  Make sure they are not slipping - I've seen this before on necks where the neck wants to "tilt" to one side when the string tension is removed.  Just a thought.

 

[Alfang]

I've seen this problem on one of my guitars, turned out to be the clamps on the locking nut were not tight enough.

Also, the clamps are square, make sure the top ridge of each clamp is inline with the neck. the pyramid shape of the clamps is to allow for the clamps to "rock" one way or the other to compensate fro dif string diameters. When you tighten the clamps you gotta bear down on them pretty tight, also may wanna make sure the screw is not binding up into wood on the underside of the nut, this may give the perception of the clamp being tight when its really not,

And to an earlier post, the string retainer is needed on locking nuts to hold the strings flat through the nut, or else tunning goes all wack when clamps are tightened, if string goes sharp after clamps are tightened, you gotta lower your string retainer, granted it may still go a few cents sharp,

 

[thearmofbarlow]

And to an earlier post, the string retainer is needed on locking nuts to hold the strings flat through the nut, or else tunning goes all wack when clamps are tightened, if string goes sharp after clamps are tightened, you gotta lower your string retainer, granted it may still go a few cents sharp,

Which is not necessary on a tilted headstock.

 

[Cederick]

Thanks for the new advices:

When I get back home I will try tighten the neck screws... However I don't know if that would do any good since the strings go out of tune only by bending. Even tho it mostly is sharpened by divebombs and flattened by bending...

Ah, so many factors! So much pain :toothy11:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

And to an earlier post, the string retainer is needed on locking nuts to hold the strings flat through the nut, or else tunning goes all wack when clamps are tightened, if string goes sharp after clamps are tightened, you gotta lower your string retainer, granted it may still go a few cents sharp,

Which is not necessary on a tilted headstock.

Only if the angle that the headstock is tilted back meets or exceeds the angle of the string path across the nut on the fallaway (tuner) side.

My old Washburn N2 was a tilt back, but not quite enough.  The clamps locked down would make it go sharp just a smidge.  Same with my TFS6, had to put a retainer bar on it. 

I tried pulling the retainer bar off of my Ibanez RG7620, found out that it's there for a reason.  Same with a Jem that I worked on for someone.

Just because its a tilt back, doesn't automatically mean that no retainer bar is used.

If you do have a tilt back headstock with a lock nut but no retainer bar, and you are going sharp upon lockdown, try stringing up your tuners so that as you wind them tight that the path of the wrap continues to do so toward the headstock face, thus increasing the angle & downward pressure.  This may help you minimize the raise in pitch that you may be experiencing.  If you do this and it continues to happen, then you may elect to drill to pilot holes and add a retainer bar.

 

[Cederick]

IT'S FIXED!!!!  :cool01: arty07: :guitaristgif: :guitarplayer2: :hello2: ccasion14: :toothy10:

All parts are obviously fine: ALL TROUBLE WAS CAUSED BY THE SPRINGS!!!

I first had them like /I\ and I played with no problems, but I needed to intonate the guitar.
So I intonated and thought setting the springs like III wouldn't make much difference: hell yes it did, 11 hours of a zombie like state trying to get the bastard in tune.
So today I changed the springs back to /I\ and it once again plays GREAT.

Ok sure, if I make some heavy divebombs some strings will go a tiny bit sharp or flat, but it's nothing you can hear, only the tuner can hear that.

I'm so happy now thanks a lot for the help! Even if I had to find out the problem source myself (some guy said the spring positioning doesn't matter... Well, on my guitar it obviously does) I have learned a lot about how a floyd works, and I can now set one up masterly  :redflag:

 

[Strat Avenger]

'Makes no difference whether your springs are III or /I\ as long as the bridge is level with the guitar body.

It certainly doesn't have anything to do with intonation. Angling the springs may produce a little more counter-tension to the strings, but that would be about the only effect.

All my Floyd springs are straight so that I can fit my trem-stops between them.

 

[Cagey]

I seriously doubt it makes a difference, either. But, you can't argue with success. If the man's happy, let him be.

 

[Cederick]

Yep for me it made much difference. Everything looked the same, bridge was level and everything was setup just like it should but it couldn't keep the tuning at all.

I wonder if 5 springs would work? I will not try it on this baby now, if I order another Floyd equipped guitar (which I certainly will since I know how it works now!) I will maybe try 5 springs

 

[Patrick from Davis]

While there is always science to justify, sometimes it is best to left well enough alone.  Happy to hear that it is working the way it is supposed to.
Patrick

 

[Cederick]

Ok just one last question before leaving this thread in victory:

is it normal that after perfect tuning doing some crazy divebombs it will be a hint flat or sharp, but it's so little that you don't hear it, but can see it on the tuner? Most strings are spon on in tune but some can go either way a tiny bit