Trying to tame my damn Floyd (SOLVED!!!)

[riverbluff]

It's a WARMOTH so yeah it's an original floyd rose I don't know why anybody whould go through the hassle of buying great parts from Warmoth and then buying some shitty licensed Floyd. I have never owned a licensed, I know they are shite. You can walk into a guitar store and look at some guitar with lic floyd and take it down and it's usually in tune and then you breath at it and it's out of tune and you why in the hell you would buy that crap... :/

You don't seem to have understand what I've been saying...

I tune it up, bend the low E and it goes sharp. I don't even use the trem arm in the tuning process

Sometimes when it seems like it is in tune I install the arm and make some divebombs and stuff and then it's screwed up again.

Even Warmoth sells a Licensed Floyd, and not all of them are bad.  The one Warmoth sells is by Schallar which are pretty good quality.  I have a licensed floyd on my jackson and it stays in tune pretty well as long as I don't get crazy with the whammy bar.

I do understand what you are saying.  And again I'll say it sounds like your string is hanging on something.  If your problem is the string is continually go sharp, it is not a matter of streaching the string to make it stop (if it was continually going flat that could be a course of action) but going sharp is an indication that the string is hanging on somthing that is not allowing it to come back to its original tension.  It sould be hanging on the nut or is could be hanging on the bridge sting block.

 

[croquet hoop]

What do you mean, there's only a few millimeters left ?

You need an allen wrench to tighten the locking nut properly. If you don't, the string will slip under, get caught and get out of tune.

Not locking the nut will allow the strings to return to pitch better than locking it unproperly (as a matter of fact, I don't lock the nut on my Floyd guitar anymore, and I don't have any tuning problems).

(as for the turns around the posts, here is what I'm talking about : http://monimag.eu/upload/1139/headstock.jpg )

 

[Cederick]

AAAAAAAAAAAARGH

I can only use the allen wrench a few millimeters before it's locked too hard?

 

[Cederick]

Ok screw the fingers I use the allen wrench from now on but it makes no difference

 

[croquet hoop]

Try to play with the nut unlocked (remove the three pads & screws). Unlock, tune the guitar properly, play, bend the E string and see it goes sharp the same way. If it does, at least this takes the nut out of the equation.

 

[Cederick]

Yep I tuned it up without the clamps and I first played a while to make sure it stayed in tune: sure, I played for a minute without the tuning going up or down.

Then I first made a pull-up and then a divebomb (which usually corrects some tuning issues after a pull-up) and AOPFHPASHIPOAPAFH!!!! The low E is guess what...

 

[croquet hoop]

Okay. You said you adjusted the intonation, are you sure you screwed the saddles back to the baseplate properly ? I am talking about these screws :

 

[Cederick]

YES I DID...., Argh


Okay so I loosened the bridge to check the knife edges, is the wear shown enough to consider it "damaged"? I'm about to burst into tears here  :sad1:

(tiny pic wanna mock me by using the sentence "well done" as upload verifying... :sad

 

[croquet hoop]

They are fine. The black coating is gone, but the profile is good. You don't want them to be dented, and yours are not. A few turns of the posts from time to time will not damage a quality Floyd trem.

(by the way, closeups definitely help, but try to either reduce the size of the pictures, or post miniatures instead, as full-size pictures are not really convenient on a board)

 

[Cederick]

Yeah sorry, I know that but I was really desperate at the moment...
I've been sitting with this guitar for over 5 hours straight now.


However, I made one adjustment after loosening the bridge: when I put it back I changed the way the springs are attached.

First I had them like this:
/I\

Now they are like:
III

All three straight. Seems like there's no need for adjustments with the tension screws, happy for that! For some reason the low E was easier to tune this time, now let's see how it keeps after playing...
I always begin playing some songs without the trem, and then I add it to see if it gets worse.

I have some new hopes now, but I'm still afraid it will continue to get out of tune...

 

[Cederick]

Okay I played for a few minutes without the arm and yeah it holds the tune fairly well from what I could hear with my ear:
Bending the strings works well and so...

Then the arm comes in like the worst party pooper you can imagine. Total disaster, all strings out of tune and fhiosdhfiposdhipaiphjipapiipaiaejpapapooapoapapaa

No this is getting really frustrating, I cannot imagine anything more I can possibly do to fix this anymore...

 

[croquet hoop]

Normally the spring pattern does not affect the stability of the trem, as long as it is symmetrical, i.e. \|/, |||, /|\ (you have to avoid /|/ for instance).

Actually it is strange that you did not need to adjust the tension, since  the tension of oblique springs is normally greater than the tension of straight ones.

In any case, the baseplate of your tremolo should be parallel to the body, to allow for precise return to pitch:

Something else you should be cautious about: check that the knife edges are properly seated in the groves of the post, as shown here:

It might be obvious, but it's quite easy to have a knife edge sit against the larger section of the post without noticing — the tension will maintain the tremolo in position, but only roughly.

 

[croquet hoop]

Okay, the best thing to do at this point might be to take a break. If you're really frustrated about the situation chances are you will only make things worse. Make yourself a good cup of coffee, clear your mind, play another instrument, take a walk, whatever you need, but focus on something else. Then come back and start over, setup the trem again, from the ground up.

Here is a great and detailed write-up on how to do it, step by step: http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm

In your case, the first four sections (Stretching Strings, Tuning The Floating Trem, Lockdown and Fine Tuning & Trem Angle) will be especially useful. Read it, then ponder, then re-read it again and picture yourself setting up your trem, and only then do it, following the instructions.

 

[Cederick]

No the bridge is in the right position of the studs  :doh:

Yeah I'm about to take a break from this now because it's certainly not going to make me happier.
It's only this constant feeling of "ok I try to retune it again and it will probably be just as awesome as it was last night" because I have played for it for about three days in days only using the fine tuners once or twice.

Now I'm there again: all strings in tune, I only play for a little while without even bending a string and the low E starts getting sharp.

This is so weird: it was the same issue with the last set. Only that I didn't care much since I had the strings sitting on the guitar roughly setup only to record divebombs since this summer when I completed the finish.
So I thought with new strings that low E issue would be gone: it's back, and it's worse than ever 

 

[SustainerPlayer]

This is just a side remark to this:

It is normal for the strings to go a bit shape once the nut is locked.

That is an indication that the string retainer is too high. If the string retainer is in the correct height the string will pass correctly on the tuner side of the nut. And the strings will not go sharp when locking.

 

[Cederick]

Ok, so what's the solution to that?

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I use a Tremol-No.  I leave it locked in Hard Tail mode whenever I'm not using the guitar, like when it's in the case.  I do the same when changing strings one at a time, as well as when I'm recording rythym tracks.

When I do unlock it for Freely Floating or Dive Only, it stays in tune flawlessly.  Also, I use 4 springs, which will aid in evening the tension against the strings.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

The above graphics are exaggerated. But lower the retainer bar by screwing it further down. (but you do not need to floor it like on the graphics).

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Ok, so what's the solution to that?

With strings slacked a bit, get a properly sized phillips screwdriver, tighten (clockwise) the hold down screws for the retainer bar, this will increase downward pressure on the bar, and should result in the string path across the locking nut to be that when it gets behind the nut towards the tuners, it is below the area where the nut clamps down.  Try this, get a small straightedge, or even a small metal 3-to-5 inch ruler, lay it straightways across the locking nut.  Assuming it's a right handed guitar, you should be seating in a playing position, with the tuners to your left.  With the ruler across the nut slot, if the string on the left side of the locking nut is higher than the ruler, you need to go down more.  If it's already there, leave it there.  You only need as much pressure to keep the clamps from pushing down on the strings further which is what is making them go sharp.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Ok, so what's the solution to that?

With strings slacked a bit, get a properly sized phillips screwdriver, tighten (clockwise) the hold down screws for the retainer bar, this will increase downward pressure on the bar, and should result in the string path across the locking nut to be that when it gets behind the nut towards the tuners, it is below the area where the nut clamps down.  Try this, get a small straightedge, or even a small metal 3-to-5 inch ruler, lay it straightways across the locking nut.  Assuming it's a right handed guitar, you should be seating in a playing position, with the tuners to your left.  With the ruler across the nut slot, if the string on the left side of the locking nut is higher than the ruler, you need to go down more.  If it's already there, leave it there.  You only need as much pressure to keep the clamps from pushing down on the strings further which is what is making them go sharp.

We posted at the same time, but the pic displays what I just said perfectly.