Tru-Oil: Sealer and Wax - Yes or No?

[alexreinhold]

Hi all, I spent a lot of time reading threads on Tru-Oil but the case for sealer and/or wax is still unclear to me.

Project: oil finish on Black Korina, no stain, no dye.
Aims: achieve a look and feel as close to raw wood as possible (on the raw wood - showroom continuum) while ensuring protection of the wood.

Question:
When using Tru-Oil, some (e.g. Stratamania) recommend to use Birchwood Casey's (BC) sealer before and its wax after. Others use only one of the other two products (BC or other manufacturers) or go for a Tru-Oil only approach. Can someone shed some light on the individual advantages/disadvantages of sealer, wax, sealer+wax and Tru-Oil-only respectively?

 

[Rick]

You're question isn't really clear to me, but if you're asking whether you should put wax on before sealer or finish, then you'll have disaster.
The sequence is:
1) sealer
2) finish
3) wax

Each step has a different purpose.
Sealer cuts down the number of coats of finish
finish is what protects the wood and makes it look nice
wax makes it shiney if you want.

 

[alexreinhold]

@rick2 thanks. My question relates to under which circumstances sealer and wax are needed (which you answered).

Since I don't want a shiny finish, wax is out. I was mostly confused why some people use all three steps, while others leave one or even two of them out.

Sealer cuts down the number of coats of finish

Will the sealer have any impact on the final looks or will it merely determine how much Tru-Oil I will need?

 

[swarfrat]

I don't try think wax does anything but aesthetics, unless it's the only finish, in which case it's just easy, minimal protection and easy to repair.

 

[stratamania]

The sealer & filler I use to save time on pore filling. Though on maple as it is close pored you could get away without it. Though with Korina the sealer filler would be worth doing.

Wax is optional I only use it mainly as a last hand buffing type step and I use a minimal amount.

 

[alexreinhold]

The sealer & filler I use to save time on pore filling. Though on maple as it is close pored you could get away without it. Though with Korina the sealer filler would be worth doing.

Wax is optional I only use it mainly as a last hand buffing type step and I use a minimal amount.

So far, every advice from you turned out to be a good path to follow - so, I guess I'll go down the BC sealer & filler + BC Tru-Oil route. Three final questions:

- any difference in looks when using sealer & filler first?
- how many coats of Tru-Oil do you recommend at a minimum after sealer & filler (2 coats) if I want to go for a wood feeling with little gloss/shine but sufficient protection? 
- will the 3 ounce bottle of Tru-Oil suffice for a Regal body? (asking because the other sizes are not available in Germany)

 

[stratamania]

No difference in looks when using sealer and filler first.

How many coats is more of an it depends answer. You need to go for thin coats - perhaps also thinned with mineral / white spirit so it is difficult to say how many. It is more of a feel thing. I tend to use some 600 grit in between coats every now and again.

A 3oz bottle is more than enough. A little goes a long way.

 

[alexreinhold]

Ok, that's good to know. I was just confused to read numbers between 5 and 30 coats on various forum posts. That's a strangely wide range

 

[Rick]

I've used naptha as a thinner for tru-oil with good results.
I found that when I hit 10 coats of tru-oil, I have protection.  After that it's cosmetic, and I've gone as high as 30.  You can do two coats a day, one in the morning and one in the evening.
Post pics.

 

[rauchman]

I'm nowhere near the talent of some folks on this site, but as someone who has made 2 partscaster with a TruOil finish.....get the big bottle

If you want a really glossy finish, on the last coat of TruOil, mix with half Naptha or Mineral Spirits.

If it helps, on the last partscaster I built...

Sealer

2-3 coats per day, everyday for a week or so (I did 2 weeks).  Every other day, use really fine grit sandpaper (1000+) with the TruOil.  By using the sandpaper, it will create a type of slurry and this will act as a filler
As mentioned, for the gloss, mix with half Naptha or Mineral Spirits and apply

Let sit for a month to let cure

 

[alexreinhold]

I'm nowhere near the talent of some folks on this site, but as someone who has made 2 partscaster with a TruOil finish.....get the big bottle

If you want a really glossy finish, on the last coat of TruOil, mix with half Naptha or Mineral Spirits.

If it helps, on the last partscaster I built...

Sealer

2-3 coats per day, everyday for a week or so (I did 2 weeks).  Every other day, use really fine grit sandpaper (1000+) with the TruOil.  By using the sandpaper, it will create a type of slurry and this will act as a filler
As mentioned, for the gloss, mix with half Naptha or Mineral Spirits and apply

Let sit for a month to let cure

Thanks a lot! Since I'm not going for a gloss finish (but quite the opposite - matte/wood all the way), I don't think I'll have to go with the Mineral spirits. Is it really necessary to cure for a whole month though?

 

[PhilHill]

Is it really necessary to cure for a whole month though?

Unfortunately, yes, it is. One of the biggest necessities in finishing is allowing proper curing time. If the finish is not hard enough it will lead to problems down the road.  :headbang:

 

[Rick]

After I let it sit for a month I use something like mequire's swirl remover.  It gets rid of any errant swirls, but i makes it shiney.

 

[rauchman]

I'm nowhere near the talent of some folks on this site, but as someone who has made 2 partscaster with a TruOil finish.....get the big bottle

If you want a really glossy finish, on the last coat of TruOil, mix with half Naptha or Mineral Spirits.

If it helps, on the last partscaster I built...

Sealer

2-3 coats per day, everyday for a week or so (I did 2 weeks).  Every other day, use really fine grit sandpaper (1000+) with the TruOil.  By using the sandpaper, it will create a type of slurry and this will act as a filler
As mentioned, for the gloss, mix with half Naptha or Mineral Spirits and apply

Let sit for a month to let cure

Thanks a lot! Since I'm not going for a gloss finish (but quite the opposite - matte/wood all the way), I don't think I'll have to go with the Mineral spirits. Is it really necessary to cure for a whole month though?

If you want a matte finish, only do a couple of coats

 

[stratamania]

Another product to try after the tru-oil if you want a satin smooth look would be Birchwood Casey Stock Sheen and Conditioner.

And once again use thin coats of Tru-oil. If it is just poured on as you see some people do it will take far longer to dry/cure.  Its better to build it up slowly.

Once again you can not say a particular number of coats as how thick are they, what is the character of the wood, who applied it and how etc...

 

[alexreinhold]

Alrighty, golden advice everyone. Here's what I'll do

- 2 coats of BC's Sealer
- ~10 thin coats of Tru-Oil - applying all the suggested sanding/waiting

/let cure for a month/

Either keep as is or use swirl remover (i still got some at home) or BC's Stock Sheen Conditioner.

Sounds about right? 

 

[rauchman]

Alrighty, golden advice everyone. Here's what I'll do

- 2 coats of BC's Sealer
- ~10 thin coats of Tru-Oil - applying all the suggested sanding/waiting

/let cure for a month/

Either keep as is or use swirl remover (i still got some at home) or BC's Stock Sheen Conditioner.

Sounds about right?

:headbang1:

 

[stratamania]

Sounds like a plan  :icon_thumright:

 

[wildbill]

Finishing wood with True Oil is a lot like driving to Cleveland, there are lots of ways to get there. Some are quicker than others and some are easier than others. Most of the info you find online about TO and guitars assumes you want a high gloss sheen. That requires grain filling first on porous wood and a lot of thin coats followed by a long dry time before high numeric grit sanding and polish.  Once you have that done, you can take it back to whatever sheen you want with scratch-marks supplied by 3M pad or any type of mild abrasive. That is how you get the best matte finish but it is a long drive.

If you know you want it to be matte not gloss to start with, you can take the shortcut but you still need to grain fill unless you are looking for that barn door look. The best grain fill method for me is wet sanding with the true oil itself for the first several coats with progressively finer grits. I haven't used the BC Sealer, my understanding is that is basically a varnish sanding sealer. I prefer the one product approach but can't knock it since I haven't tried it. I would suggest a test sample starting both ways, see if there is a difference in color.

The really good thing about TO is that it is forgiving. If you don't like how it looks, if comes off real easy with a little sanding. I think your plan works but you can probably finish early without the long dry time since you are not going for high gloss. You will learn as you go; as I have said before, TO is a labor of love.  Satisfying when you are finally done.

 

[alexreinhold]

Finishing wood with True Oil is a lot like driving to Cleveland, there are lots of ways to get there. Some are quicker than others and some are easier than others. Most of the info you find online about TO and guitars assumes you want a high gloss sheen. That requires grain filling first on porous wood and a lot of thin coats followed by a long dry time before high numeric grit sanding and polish.  Once you have that done, you can take it back to whatever sheen you want with scratch-marks supplied by 3M pad or any type of mild abrasive. That is how you get the best matte finish but it is a long drive.

If you know you want it to be matte not gloss to start with, you can take the shortcut but you still need to grain fill unless you are looking for that barn door look. The best grain fill method for me is wet sanding with the true oil itself for the first several coats with progressively finer grits. I haven't used the BC Sealer, my understanding is that is basically a varnish sanding sealer. I prefer the one product approach but can't knock it since I haven't tried it. I would suggest a test sample starting both ways, see if there is a difference in color.

The really good thing about TO is that it is forgiving. If you don't like how it looks, if comes off real easy with a little sanding. I think your plan works but you can probably finish early without the long dry time since you are not going for high gloss. You will learn as you go; as I have said before, TO is a labor of love.  Satisfying when you are finally done.

Thanks so much for the further insight! How would I know if I can finish early with shorter dry time?