Trem block Material?

[LushTone]

Is it hype?? After some research, how do you guys feel about different trem block materials and their acoustic properties?

I'm talking everything including zinc, brass, aluminum, and steel...

 

[DavyDave53]

If you're having a neck drive problem,  use steel.

If you want your guitar to be lighter, use aluminum.

 

[Cagey]

Opinions vary widely. Unsurprisingly, for both buyers and sellers alike, the more expensive the material and/or its manufacturing process, the "better" it reportedly sounds. Unfortunately, little or no purely objective data exists regarding the reality of any material's performance.

To really find out the truth, somebody would have to spend some serious time and money testing in such a way as to eliminate all other variables other than the material. As far as I know, that hasn't been done.

Just guessing, I'd say it makes little difference. I would think the saddle to base plate to pivot point(s) (to bushings) to wood would be the critical mechanical connections that control how the string(s) vibrate. The "sustain" block is just an anchor that needs to be stiff enough to not deform in response to spring pressure.

 

[bagman67]

My usual response to claims that this or that product will revolutionize guitar tone is, "So everything ever recorded or played before sounded like crap?", which in turn gives rise to two additional thoughts, one particular to this topic and one general: 


1.  People have been making amazing guitar noises using brass and zinc and steel blocks for years (and even hardwood or plastic bridge saddles on hardtails).  If you don't sound good to your own ears, chances are good that your trem block is not the problem, and changing it may give you the confirmation bias happiness you're looking for, but ultimately you probably ought to practice your instrument (here defined as your guitar-plus-signal-path-plus-amp) to get where you want to go.  If you *do* sound good to your ears, why consider a trem block upgrade?  Which brings me to:


2.  All that having been said, your guitar is your hobby, not anyone else's, so you should experiment and experience things to the limit of your curiosity.  A buncha dudes on the internet with opinions really shouldn't be the final word on your guitar explorations. 


I will say this about experimenting with a trem block:  There is no reason on God's green earth why a brass block should come in at the price some of these custom dudes are charging.  You could probably get one cut out of scrap billet at a local machine shop for the price of a case of beer, or at least a lot less than custom-magical prices if you befriend the right dudes.  Alternatively, our friends at Guitar Fetish come through again, at about $22 for a steel block, $25 for brass., although shipping will jack the price up.  I see you can get 3/8" by 2.5" brass bar stock at $40.82 for a foot (better prices for larger quantities, as usual), if you wanted to go in with a few other guys on having some blocks fabbed up.


And of course, the implication that "revolutionizes" is a good thing is not necessarily the way revolutions work in real life.  Not everyone is better off after a revolution.  See, e.g., the Arab Spring countries, of which Tunisia is the only one that has wound up with a functioning democracy.  To say nothing of those guillotined in the French revolution.  And countless others.  I realize this is not a wholly apposite line of reasoning, but I get all cranky when I consider marketing weenies and their concerted assault on common sense.

 

[Cagey]

...I get all cranky when I consider marketing weenies and their concerted assault on common sense.

Amen, brother.

 

[line6man]

I ended up getting forced to buy a brass block once, when the block that came with the bridge I ordered was too tall and stuck out of the back of the trem cavity. (Why can't I order a plain block without paying a fortune??) I was expecting there to be no difference, but what I heard was a HUGE difference. That being said, there were also some other variables that changed, so I was never able to isolate the effects of the trem block. I'm fairly sure there was at least some contribution to tone and sustain, but I can't say how much.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Unfortunately, little or no purely objective data exists

That's because objectivity has no place in the arts. If we went with what is objectively the most efficient and truest reproduction of sound, valve amps and passive pickups would have died out decades ago.


The block of a vibrato bridge can be largely irrelevant with certain bridge designs, guitar construction and playing style. The block on a Floyd Rose in a bolt-on plexiglass guitar with a graphite neck isn't going to have any influence on the sound you get, whereas the block on a 6-screw Strat bridge on a set neck all-mahogany guitar is going to have a phenomenal impact on your tone.

The only thing which actualy is consistent from guitar to guitar, and which most people can agree on, is that larger blocks of any given material tend to give a fuller sound than smaller ones. This is true of any hardware and construction; more mass, bigger sound. That's not to say that guitars with thin blocks (or other skimpy hardware or design) can't have a big sound, just that a bigger version of the same guitar would sound even bigger.

Is your vibrato's block a significant point of contact for the guitar? It's going to matter a lot. Is your vibrato's block just a random lump of metal stuck in just to hold the springs in place? It's not going to matter much.
As for tone, if you want a brighter sound, try a thinner steel or titanium block. If you want a warmer sound, try a thicker brass or zinc block. If you want something in the middle, thick steel/titanium is probably your best balance, or thin zinc/brass.

Ultimately, the woods, construction, nut, saddles and electronics are all going to be much larger factors in the sound of your guitar than the block is.

 

[bagman67]

Unfortunately, little or no purely objective data exists

That's because objectivity has no place in the arts.

I'm pretty sure I mostly agree with you after this initial sally, Ace, but the point was not to complain about the lack of objectivity in the artistic endeavor - the point was to note that stuff sold to guitarists is not characterized by any kind of objective evaluation of the effect the doo-dad will have on sound production.  Same is true for paper-in-oil caps, stainless steel frets, thin nitro vs. "thick" poly finishes, and so on.  We wade through a morass of subjective opinion, "mojo," and snake oil.  Often we are happy with what we have because we paid what we thought would be the right price for what we thought we wanted.  Other times we are unhappy because the reality didn't live up to the hype.  Some of us - not all, by any means - would prefer to know what we're getting into by some objective criteria, rather than "these pickups shimmer more." 

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Out of necessity I changed a Schaller Lockmeister from a 42 mm block to a 37 mm block on my latest build. It's the same material but less mass (d'oh). I didn't notice any difference - it's still a kick ass guitar.

I have owned my share of FR-equipped guitars. I have never really gotten to that moment where I thought ... hey ... I gotta try another material for my tremolo block.

But I guess I must try that one day. Just to cross that of my bucket list.*

Oh ... and my latest build?

Teaser:

* It's not on my bucket list.

 

[DangerousR6]

I wouldn't say one is better than another, but for sustain I'd say you can't go wrong with bell brass... :dontknow:

 

[LushTone]

Wow, lots of opinions! Thanks for the insight!  ccasion14:

 

[Orpheo]

I love brass blocks. I hate zinc and other undefined metals. I don't care for the exotic ones like titanium or tungsten. Those cost too much to really be worth the dough, imho. So. I opt for the tonal boost of a brass block. Simply best bang for the buck. I've noticed huge differences by just changing the block. More chime, more sparkle, tighter in the lows and more solid mids with brass compared to zinc.

 

[spauldingrules]

I like the ones that hold the trem arm best.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I like the ones that hold the trem arm best.

'Never heard of a sustain block that holds the arm.One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[klangster]

I put a heavy brass block on my esp when I did a full fix up on it. Like has been said it is hard to say how much difference it made but it was the most significant material change I made to the guitar.Now the acoustic tone seems much warmer (great because it is an all maple guitar with an ebony fretboard) and more sustain.

 

[Ace Flibble]

I like the ones that hold the trem arm best.

'Never heard of a sustain block that holds the arm.One has nothing to do with the other.

There are many, many vibrato bridge designs where the arm screws down deep beyond the base plate and into the block.

 

[frown]

There are many, many vibrato bridge designs where the arm screws down deep beyond the base plate and into the block.

I concur. The Trem on my Yamaha Pacifica 412 has this - sounds dead with the zinc block it has, but as the arm fits into the block, finding a better block that will fit is nigh on impossible. As a result I'm looking a replacing the whole Trem...

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

When adamantium becomes affordable, then I'll consider putting out some coin, but in the meantime, a brass block does fine for me.

I had an old Mighty Might 6 hole Strat style trem in the late 80's, and it had a slightly oversized block in it, and to this day it is still the best sounding of all of the trems that I've ever had.  The only problem was that the threads became stripped in the hole where the bar goes.  I tried to repair it myself by filling with epoxy and then re-drilling/tapping it, and it quickly became one of the pieces of gear that went into the "I learned by screwing it up" list.

I've had several brass bridges, including the larger Ibanez tunomatic style that they had on their Artist Series and one on an old Destroyer that I had, and I liked them all.  I've had the die cast zinc sustain blocks on plenty of crappy trems, and there was a noticeable difference to me on those particular pieces, but nothing that warrants the several hundered dollar price tags that they're marking up many of these today.

GFS to the rescue again, as was said earlier.  You can find some there that will fit many aftermarket trems, for a lot less coin, and they continue to debunk the myth that if the price tag is higher, so is the quality.  A good piece of gear is a good piece of gear, and may emotionally be worth more to one person than the other, but the extraneous markup some times is insulting to the consumer.

 

[spauldingrules]

LOL Street Avenger.  Others have avenged me!

I like the ones that hold the trem arm best.

'Never heard of a sustain block that holds the arm.One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Strat Avenger]

Well it's no "trem" I've ever heard of.

Floyd Rose, Kahler, Wilkinson (and of course Bigby and Fender, which are archaic). The Washburn "Wonderbar" is no longer made.

Who uses they type you're referring to??