Treble Bleed; Variants and personal experiences?

[Rick]

500K Custom Taper Pot (High Pass Filter) for Volume | DiMarzio

Standard guitar pots limit your musical expression, only starting to deliver sound at about “3” on the dial and then never getting much louder above “7”. DiMarzio’s custom taper pot is made to solve that problem by precisely delivering a consistent signal-to-turn ratio, like a 10-position...

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250K Custom Taper Pot (High Pass Filter) for Volume | DiMarzio

Standard guitar pots limit your musical expression, only starting to deliver sound at about “3” on the dial and then never getting much louder above “7”. DiMarzio’s custom taper pot is made to solve that problem by precisely delivering a consistent signal-to-turn ratio, like a 10-position...

www.dimarzio.com

Treble Bleed - Gombrelli Guitars USA (Stratocaster Design)

Fender Stratocaster Treble Bleed Circuits and explainations by Gombrelli Gutars USA.

stratocasterdesign.com

 

[Tretgeraet]

I will keep you all updated about my findings.

Alright! I updated 3 guitars with 3 different treble bleeds:

My 7/8 S-Style got the simple 180pF "cap-only" variant, which tends to make the sound overly bright at lower volumes, but with a basswood body and an A2 magnet humbucker, that guitar is never too bright. So it works really well for it's intended purposes; with my favorite fuzz or a treble booster however, it get's WAY too bright at low volumes, but that's not what I build this guitar for anyway.

Cap only:
Plus:
- Works for a huge variety of styles
- Doesn't change the taper of the pot
Minus:
- Can be too much with fuzzes and treble boosters, especially without a tone control.


The 150k parallel with 1nF worked well in the telly and since I wanted to change the pickups in my Epiphone Sheraton II for quite a while now... well if you start working on an ES-335-style thinline guitar why not give it a once-over, new pots (push pull for series / parallel)... I gave it the 150k parallel with 1nF treble bleed.

It's kind of an all-purpose solution, the only drawback is the taper get's changed, especially at low volumes where there is kind of a jump. Also in the low volumes, it can get kinda trebly, not as much as the cap-only variant, but I wouldn't use it in a guitar without tone controls, if you use the lowest volume setting a lot.

150k and 1nF parallel:
Plus:
- Treble is more constant
Minus:
- Changes the taper of the pot

For my purpleheart guitar I chose a 150k resistor parallel with a 470pF cap. With the smaller cap, is doesn't get too trebly in the lowest volumes, but it's not as effective as a treble bleed in higher volumes compared to the other variants, though still much better than without a treble bleed.

Since the purpleheart doesn't have a tone pot, I prefered this one here.

150k and 470pF parallel:
Plus:
- Doesn't get too trebly in lowest volumes
Minus:
- Less effective than the others
- Still changes the taper

I did not try the kinman treble bleed, because the others worked for me

If anyone wants to really dig into the topic, there are two links:

https://drkevguitar.com/2016/11/24/treble-bleed-mod-roundup/

And in that article he also refers to this thread:

https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5317/treble-bleed-circuit?page=1

There, one can find frequecy response graphs and comparisons and some more science behind it and so on.

It helped me in deciding where to start and what to expect.

 

[Hodgo]

 

[VanHeGen]

Very interesting thread, thanx for initiating it @Tretgeraet !
So even if @stratamania wisely said ”If a treble bleed works, then that is about the only thing it is going to do. Don't overthink it” I actully have to see what’s in my guitars, and I might have to try one of those alternatives…

 

[rauchman]

Any downsides to using a treble bleed?

 

[ragamuffin]

Any downsides to using a treble bleed?

Some people say it changes the tone somehow, but my experience is no downsides

 

[Spud]

Alternatively leaches can also be utilized, however they do require constant replacement.

 

[Tretgeraet]

Alternatively leaches can also be utilized, however they do require constant replacement.

Yes, and a lot of training!

 

[Spud]

Yes, and a lot of training!

You're telling me!

 

[Don O]

It does add weight, just saying…

 

[supertruper1988]

Any downsides to using a treble bleed?

If you are used to riding your volume to control gain and such, a treble bleed can alter the taper of the volume pot so if you are very specific about the feel of that, then you may find you will just rip out the bleed later.

Another thing that I havent seen recommended is to try "50's" wiring if you have a master volume and tone. Thats where you connect the tone to the middle lug (output) of the volume. It helps retain some treble because of its position in the circuit but it does change the feel a little bit.

90% of the time, I am a volume on 10 player, just using my pick attack to adjust my dynamics. The taper adjustment doesnt matter to me but its nice to have a little treble on the occasion I need to turn down a little to adjust how my amp is reacting.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

There are probably people who like the loss of treble when rolling off the volume. If you have the wrong capacitor value it can give a bit too much bite. In my case I only use small capacitor of 220pF with a series resistor and the effect is not obvious.

As mentioned above, another possible downside is a treble bleed using a parallel resistor will change the taper of the volume pot. That will only be a benefit if you use an “audio taper” volume pot.

 

[Spud]

There are probably people who like the loss of treble when rolling off the volume. If you have the wrong capacitor value it can give a bit too much bite. In my case I only use small capacitor of 220pF with a series resistor and the effect is not obvious.

As mentioned above, another possible downside is a treble bleed using a parallel resistor will change the taper of the volume pot. That will only be a benefit if you use an “audio taper” volume pot.

Yes, this I am one of those weird folks!

 

[VanHeGen]

Volume swells can be harder to do, of couse depending on the treble bleed in question.

 

[Tretgeraet]

Another thing that I havent seen recommended is to try "50's" wiring if you have a master volume and tone. Thats where you connect the tone to the middle lug (output) of the volume.

That is correct. It might be because the guitar in question in my original post, my 7/8 S-Style, as well as every other guitar I was thinking about adding a treble bleed at that time, doesn't have a tone control!

But yes, 50's wiring can make a difference and for some that might be enough.

The principle works as long as you can put the tone control behind the volume control, so master volume and master tone is possible, individual volumes and tones as well, master volume with individual tones does not work.

Individual volume controls and master tone control is "50's wiring" by design.

 

[stratamania]

Alternatively leaches can also be utilized, however they do require constant replacement.

That sucks... pun intended