To Kemper or not to Kemper

exaN

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So after moving to a small apartment and giving up on real amps for now, I've been playing exclusively with Guitar Rig 5 as a cheap alternative. I've been able to dial in some pretty solid tones all things considered, but you can always tell there's something missing. It just doesn't respond to your fingers as well. I'm completely sold on Kemper and know how scary close it can sound to the real thing (or even better). These days I pretty much only record, so I'm not sure if I really need an actual amp anyways and I should just suck it up and stick to GR5. Any of you have experience with both GR5 and Kemper and if it's worth making the leap?
 
Don't know about the Kemper, but the AxeFX is a real joy.  It's got the tone and the feel.  If the Kemper is similar, it will be great.
 
Personally I prefer the Axe FX. Made the decision to go that way back in 2009 and have never regretted it.  My friend uses the Kemper.  Good amp tones.  Effects are limiting compared to the Axe I feel.
 
I was looking at the Axe FX too. I associate it a lot with metal players and generally high gain stuff. Do you think it compares when it comes to more generic, less gain rock tones?
 
exaN said:
I was looking at the Axe FX too. I associate it a lot with metal players and generally high gain stuff. Do you think it compares when it comes to more generic, less gain rock tones?

Easily for any genre... and the Axe FX feels great to play through.

Floyd tones....

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh7NtCxFgMs[/youtube]

Axe FX compared to real amps.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmXZZ0oEtbI[/youtube]

Creating an SRV tone. (you don't have to tweak this deep)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDaJ9cfRYwM[/youtube]



 
The Kemper is kinda like a high-resolution copy machine that's good enough to print money. The AxeFx is more like an ultimate toolkit that's good enough to create money. Neither is "geared toward" any particular style or genre, but more toward a type of user. Either one is capable of modeling existing amps to where blind tests won't reveal the difference between the original and the copy, but the Kemper needs the original to do it, while the AxeFx gives you the capability of doing it without the original.

Most people are flabbergasted at how good these units are, but you'll read the occasional review where somebody gives up on or downgrades one or the other as "not quite there". There are a couple of reasons for that.

First, even originals don't always sound like originals. Due to age and/or component tolerances, not all amps sound alike. For example, I used to own a Marshall JCM 900 that everyone agreed was just magical. That model generally didn't sound as good as the one I had. On the other end of the scale, one of my brothers had a Fender Twin that was somewhat less than satisfying. What was happening was a manifestation of reality in that electronic components have tolerances that range from 1% to 20%, and there's a bell curve to that. Sometimes everything falls in place to form a natural born killer at one end of the curve, most of the time they're in the middle, occasionally you get a retard. Nothing wrong with either one of our amps, but mine was a "natural born killer" while his was... not so much. But if you used either of those as your baseline for comparison, a perfect copy of those models in general would have sounded "wrong".

The other difference is physical. A Fender Twin or [insert amp model here] has a physical configuration that affects its performance in a given environment. The Twin is two speakers built into a partially open-backed 20"x26"x10" plywood box with a heavy weight bolted into one of its long sides. Not only is that enclosure going to affect its sound, it's going to affect the way the sound is projected from it. Most of the sound will come from the front, but some will come out the back out of phase and bounce off the rear wall (or whatever it hits first, plus subsequent reverberations). This is the much-discussed "amp in the room" sound that modelers in and of themselves can't possibly reproduce. As a result, all modelers from a $200 bargain basement pedal to the AxeFx Super Deluxe Ultimate Platinum Edition X often sound like anywhere from bad to perfect recordings of what they're modeling.

So, which is better? It depends on the user. Either one will probably get you where you need to be. The Kemper sounds great and is easy to deal with. The AxeFx sounds great but is dramatically more configurable, to the point where you can create amps that don't currently exist. It also has more and better SFX than anything on the market. The downside to the AxeFx (if you can call it that) for some people is you can do damn near anything, which leads some people into analysis paralysis. They start tweaking parameters endlessly and are always wondering if there isn't something more they could do to make it better. People complain that they spend more time tweaking than playing. Not that they need to, but just because they can. The thing has numerous adjustments you can make where you won't even know what the hell they are, let alone what they do, and many of them interact.

Personally, I'm of the "rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it" school of tools and feature sets that let me do whatever the hell I want, so the AxeFx suits me. If you just want a huge pile of amps/effects to play with, the Kemper might be the better choice.
 
Myself, I use low to medium gain amps in it. Matchless DC-30 for a good portion of what I play. Also a Dumple ODS and a Friedman HBE.

I also use it for my bass, my acoustic guitars, and my piezo electric guitar.
 
Thanks for the super detailed reply once again Cagey :icon_thumright:. The Kemper is quite a bit cheaper than the Axe FX, but I would still end up having to buy profiles online since I don't own any amps right now. The effects in Guitar Rig are pretty damn good though, so I could use that for effects when recording.
 
If you are only going to record another option is a Universal Audio Apollo interface which has inbuilt DSP. You can then buy amp sims and things such as effects and recording desk sims. They are very good but you need to be disciplined to get just what you need.

 
Another option (that I'm considering) is Atomic Amps Amplifire (or it's bigger brother Amplifire 12):

amplifire-pedal-1200-1030x702.png


[youtube]https://youtu.be/4dxgUIMQw2c[/youtube]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/zbW9UrQUU24[/youtube]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/iZ921eVXkGg[/youtube]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/3waOHfhTgDw[/youtube]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/PcockhfJRuM[/youtube]

 
I have had in the past an Axe FII, excellent and have no hesitation to recommend.

The Amplifire I had for a while but for me I sold it and personally would not be enticed for another one.
 
stratamania said:
I have had in the past an Axe FII, excellent and have no hesitation to recommend.

The Amplifire I had for a while but for me I sold it and personally would not be enticed for another one.

What do you use now? Another modeller or the real deal?
 
I'm happy enough with my Eleven Rack that I'm not even looking at more expensive things. I could imagine you might get more flexibility in routing or effects patching or a few new speaker models but ... I got a killer AC-30 and a killer JCM800 and I'm done.
 
It says something that Cliff Chase, the owner and chief cook & bottle washer at Fractal Audio who designed the AxeFx, has been complimentary of the 18Rack. Other modelers? Not so much. Of course, the 18Rack is no competition to him, so he could afford to be generous. But, he did say that what it does it does well, which is a lot coming from him.

I had one for a while and thought it was a nice unit. It's a helluva lotta hardware for the money. They can be had used all over the place in the $300-$400 range, which is incredible. Nothing else at twice that price even comes close.
 
Logrinn said:
stratamania said:
I have had in the past an Axe FII, excellent and have no hesitation to recommend.

The Amplifire I had for a while but for me I sold it and personally would not be enticed for another one.

What do you use now? Another modeller or the real deal?

Real stuff I have a Suhr Bella head and cab.  Also a small Blackstar and a Warwick Bass amp.

I also have a Universal Audio Apollo with some of the Engl and Friedman sims etc.

I recently sold my G-System board and am toying with the idea of a Helix or a Fractal AX8 to use in 4cm with the Bella, or to build out a pedalboard.  I might also look at the new Boss MS-3 to use with the Bella and a couple of pedals I already have.

I would not mind another Axe FXII when funds allow.
 
Month old post, but I'll go ahead and weigh in.  I struggled with the Fractal/Kemper choice for almost a year before going with the Kemper.  What the Ax-FX has going for it was a magnificent effects package, software editor and very powerful processing for near perfect amp sounds.  Then I remembered...I don't use effects, I prefer simple interfaces and imperfections are what makes amps unique.

You can go down the rabbit hole on either unit.  The Fractal has almost endless parameters to tweek and the Kemper has almost endless profiles to try out.  Right now there are over 10,000 free Kemper profiles and I would say only 10% are worth using...that still gives you 1000 stage and studio ready rigs at no extra cost.  I've had my Kemper for a few years now and I still haven't even scratched the surface.  And, being the gear whore that I am, every day is like Christmas in that new profiles are being uploaded daily. 

What I like about the Fractal community is they offer far more patches that duplicate the sound of certain artists and specific songs.  If I type in "Pink Floyd" in the Fractal axechange, I'll get a dozen or so hits.  Doing the same thing on the Kemper site gets zero hits because they focus on the amps themselves and replicating a particular artist's tone is up to you.

Kemper, Helix, Fractal...all sound great
 
I would echo the 'rabbit hole' comment. If you're a tweaker, be careful of what you ask for.  Today's stage had my Axe-Fx, a Kemper and a Helix on stage.  Not an analog system in sight LOL.  All sounded great.  (Except the Kemper and Helix could not have pulled off the vintage tube Ampeg tones I was using for my Lakland bass LOL).
 
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