Threaded wood insert help needed

[Cagey]

Isn't that the exact same argument people use about capacitors? "If you're building a $3000 guitar, does it really matter if your tone capacitor costs $50?".

Not really. The capacitor argument isn't about cost, it's that differently constructed capacitors sound differently, ie: mylar vs. polyester, ceramic vs. oil over paper, air vs. mica, etc. which is silly.

 

[swarfrat]

I don't doubt that C values with 20% tolerance which have differing parasitic inductance and equivalent series resistance can make a tonal difference. The silly part is paying $50 for marketing rather than shifting the resonant frequency of your circuit with apropriate parts.

But it definitely falls into "overkill far in excess of designed in safety margins"

 

[croquet hoop]

I don't doubt that C values with 20% tolerance which have differing parasitic inductance and equivalent series resistance can make a tonal difference. The silly part is paying $50 for marketing rather than shifting the resonant frequency of your circuit with apropriate parts.

Actually, the silly thing would be paying anything for a 20% tolerance cap when you can have 5% (mylar/box cap) for $.10 (ceramics being $.01, so called mojo caps $3)  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[rorycosgrove]

Are threaded inserts the only way to bolt on a neck without a neck plate? I'm guessing washers could be problematic?

-Rory

 

[Cagey]

The object of the exercise isn't to get out of using the neck plate. People use a variety of beauty/countersunk washers all the time rather than neck plates (example).

Threaded inserts are used to increase the clamping pressure at the neck joint, which is thought to improve sustain and high-end response. It also makes it easier to install/remove the neck without wearing out the holes as wood screws will.

 

[rorycosgrove]

Right. I knew that wasn't the purpose, but something I read elsewhere led me to believe that inserts were the choice route for that 'clean' look. No matter, I'm glad that's not the case. What would you recommend as the simplest/easiest way to achieve this? Wouldn't the screw length have to be shortened for the countersunk washers, because the screw would not be in as deep with a neck plate?

-Rory

 

[rorycosgrove]

Nevermind that last question; I read more from your example

-Rory

 

[back2thefutre]

So when is warmoth gunna start doing this for us?

 

[Phaedrus]

Hey! (Bump..I know..But it seemed like a silly reason to open a new thred..)

I really need some clarification, as we don't use the imperial system here, and I'd rather look for inserts here than order it internationally.

So, if I got it right, I'm looking for a thread with a 10-32 or 10-24 interior thread size, and a 3/8"-16 ext thread. my questions is:
what the hell is 10-32 and 3/8"-16?? What is the unit and what does that unit measure?
I assume there is some kind of pitch measurement here...I kind of guess that 3/8" is three eighthes an inch of something's width or something..But a clarification will sure help if I intend on explaining myself to the clerk at the desk and not appear as a complete idiot haha..

My pardon for what seems like a real noob's question...I totally blame it on me living in a non-english speaking country that uses the metric system, but then again I guess if I knew my stuff I'd know the answer inspite of that..

P.S - Are the inserts only set into the neck? Is there no need to do this on the body for the same reasons? Or am I missing something out?

 

[Cagey]

So when is warmoth gunna start doing this for us?

Probably never. They'd have to charge too much for it to make it worth their while, and it's easy enough to do yourself. The mod probably wouldn't sell, so why bother? Plus, they sell replacement parts. There are no production necks extant that include that mod.

 

[Cagey]

So, if I got it right, I'm looking for a thread with a 10-32 or 10-24 interior thread size, and a 3/8"-16 ext thread. my questions is:
what the hell is 10-32 and 3/8"-16?? What is the unit and what does that unit measure?

P.S - Are the inserts only set into the neck? Is there no need to do this on the body for the same reasons? Or am I missing something out?

There are two measurements to a threaded insert. One is the internal thread, which you really want to be an 8-32 rather than a 10-32, and the external thread, which varies depending on the style/insert supplier.

The internal number means the screw size and thread pitch. So, an 8-32 is a #8 screw at 32 threads per inch. For some reason, with inserts they don't measure the external thread the same way. Typically, they tell you the barrel diameter, since that the size hole you'd drill. The thread diameter is larger, but we don't usually care because it's going to displace whatever you thread it into. That's what makes them tight. You also need to know what that thread pitch is if you're going to tap the hole, but you may have to measure it yourself to find out what it is.

We're pretty backwards here in the States in that we still use imperial measurements, so I can't tell you easily what a good conversion is. But, If you call a good fastener supplier, they'd probably be able to guide you pretty well.

 

[bagman67]

McMaster Carr lists the dimensions in metric as well as imperial measurements.

 

[swarfrat]

Warmoth doesn't offer a number of services that have been hinted to as not being compatible with the license agreement, even if they're not explicitly spelled out. (IE, we sell replacement parts, not a full service shop). Especially with regard to necks. They have more leeway on bodies.  I think Stuby used 10-32, but most everyone else uses 8-32 as roughly equivalent to the wood screw being replaced.  Since I have a little used metal lathe in my shop, I got the bright idea to just grab a 3/8-16 bolt and drill and tap it to make my own inserts which ACTUALLY fit. Doh.

 

[john_p_wi]

The theoretical calculation for the major diameter of machine screws is as follows:  The number of the screw x 0.013 inch + 0.060 inch. 

For an 8-32, it would be 8 x 0.013 inch + 0.060 inch = 0.164 inch.  Of course in real life it is a slightly smaller diameter.

A #8 machine screw (0.164) inch is Slightly larger than a M4 machine screw.

Hope this helps.

 

[Phaedrus]

Alright, thanks for all the guidance guys!

So an 8-32 int. thread.
Any recomendation on the approximate ext. thread I'm looking for?

Am I looking for something where the knives are real close together for friction, or where they are real apart so as to hold more wood? A specific thread will also be great as an anchor to relate to.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

If you're going metric, you'll want:

Inserts:
Internal thread: M4 x 0.7mm
External thread: M8 x 1.25mm

Tap: M8 x 1.25mm
Drill bit: 7mm (or 6.8mm if you can find one)

Screws: M4 x 45mm (or less for contoured heel), raised pozi countersink.

 

[stubhead]

EZ Lok makes every imaginable sort of threaded inserts, many in metric as well as in Cowboy threads.
http://www.ezlok.com/Home/index.html

The reason I'm using exactly what I'm using was simply because this guy explained it well:
http://www.philtone.com/inserts.html
And I found exactly the size instantly at Amazon with free shipping, sometimes things just work.
I know EZ Lok has carbon and stainless steel ones in metric/metric, but it looks like they've come up with some brass ones for hardwoods in both metric and other threads that look to be spiffy.
http://www.catalogds.com/db/service?domain=ezlok&command=browse&category=knife_thread