Threaded wood insert help needed
- Thread starter Scuffcakes
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bagman67
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Sorry, had a brain fart. You can monkey with the parameters to see whether they return what you're after. I reckon for a hard stainless screw, the difference between oval and flat heads would be largely aesthetic, but obviously you want what you want.
Which would be these: http://www.aaronsmachinescrews.com/cfusion/DisplayProduct.cfm?ITEM=1731SN3026
Which would be these: http://www.aaronsmachinescrews.com/cfusion/DisplayProduct.cfm?ITEM=1731SN3026
Strat Avenger
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Gee, how difficult can it be to paint the tops of 4 screw-heads black??
S
SalsaNChips
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Last weekend I installed the Onyx Forge zinc inserts in my '87 Fender American Standard Stratocaster neck. The existing screw holes in that neck were pretty beat up from having been removed and re-torqued several times over the years so I figured it was a good candidate for neck inserts, more so than a new neck from Warmoth.
The Fender neck is maple, easy to drill and I used the 15/64 drill bit Onyx Forge sells with the kits (I already have a decent bit set but wanted a fresh, sharp bit and it was only a couple bucks extra). I used a cheap Harbor Freight drill press and verified that the drill was 90 degrees to the work platform first. I supported the neck on a piece of soft scrap wood to keep from damaging the frets. I clamped the neck in the exact center to make sure it was completely level with the work platform of the press. This is important; I fortunately discovered before drilling that clamping even a little off to one side will rock the neck to one side on the curved neck radius which would result in a hole drilled out of line with the existing screw holes. A better way would have been to clamp it on the sides with square blocks. The drilling itself was a total non-issue, very easy. Going VERY slow and making sure I was 100% lined up before taking the plunge with the bit. I did have an extra insert in my kit and practiced on a scrap of Pine. My cheap drill press has a tiny bit of side to side movement in the drill head which actually turned out to be a good thing – the drill followed the existing screw holes perfectly. I measured depth before drilling and marked the bit with a piece of tape. Obviously, a pretty important detail; you definitely want to get that one right.
Installing the inserts – likewise, non-issue. I used wax on the zinc threads and screwed them in by hand with an Allen wrench. The inserts lined up and followed the drilled holes perfectly. I screwed them in just under flush with the wood on the neck heel. The wood did dimple up slightly and I sanded this down in a few seconds with 300 grit paper.
Re-installing the neck – no problems, the screws that came with the kit lined up fine. Got the neck TIGHT, within reason of course, but torqued down way tighter than I would have been comfortable with using just the wood screws. Enough that I could just barely see the plastic pad I added under the neck plate start squishing out.
Overall, real happy with it and glad I went to the effort. I bought the Onyx Forge kit because it came with black screws – and also knowing I was getting something that had been used many times before with no issues. Actually, I bought two sets – one for my Strat and one for my upcoming Warmoth Tele build. I am still undecided about using the inserts on the Tele neck since it is Mahogany. Probably should use a tap first, which is no problem but I need to make sure I get the right one which I think is 5/16-18 (?). Need to check into this…
Hope this info is helpful to anybody thinking about installing inserts.
The Fender neck is maple, easy to drill and I used the 15/64 drill bit Onyx Forge sells with the kits (I already have a decent bit set but wanted a fresh, sharp bit and it was only a couple bucks extra). I used a cheap Harbor Freight drill press and verified that the drill was 90 degrees to the work platform first. I supported the neck on a piece of soft scrap wood to keep from damaging the frets. I clamped the neck in the exact center to make sure it was completely level with the work platform of the press. This is important; I fortunately discovered before drilling that clamping even a little off to one side will rock the neck to one side on the curved neck radius which would result in a hole drilled out of line with the existing screw holes. A better way would have been to clamp it on the sides with square blocks. The drilling itself was a total non-issue, very easy. Going VERY slow and making sure I was 100% lined up before taking the plunge with the bit. I did have an extra insert in my kit and practiced on a scrap of Pine. My cheap drill press has a tiny bit of side to side movement in the drill head which actually turned out to be a good thing – the drill followed the existing screw holes perfectly. I measured depth before drilling and marked the bit with a piece of tape. Obviously, a pretty important detail; you definitely want to get that one right.
Installing the inserts – likewise, non-issue. I used wax on the zinc threads and screwed them in by hand with an Allen wrench. The inserts lined up and followed the drilled holes perfectly. I screwed them in just under flush with the wood on the neck heel. The wood did dimple up slightly and I sanded this down in a few seconds with 300 grit paper.
Re-installing the neck – no problems, the screws that came with the kit lined up fine. Got the neck TIGHT, within reason of course, but torqued down way tighter than I would have been comfortable with using just the wood screws. Enough that I could just barely see the plastic pad I added under the neck plate start squishing out.
Overall, real happy with it and glad I went to the effort. I bought the Onyx Forge kit because it came with black screws – and also knowing I was getting something that had been used many times before with no issues. Actually, I bought two sets – one for my Strat and one for my upcoming Warmoth Tele build. I am still undecided about using the inserts on the Tele neck since it is Mahogany. Probably should use a tap first, which is no problem but I need to make sure I get the right one which I think is 5/16-18 (?). Need to check into this…
Hope this info is helpful to anybody thinking about installing inserts.
Cagey
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SalsaNChips said:
I would never have tried zinc inserts; glad that worked out for you.
If you tap the holes, you won't get the dimpling in the wood from installing the inserts. 5/16-18 bottoming tap is what I use, but it depends on the insert so you'll have to check that.
Don't worry about the Mahogany - I've put inserts in Wenge and Bloodwood without issue, and they're both much harder and denser.
Cagey
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I never bothered with the zinc parts because of the amount of wrestling I had to do with the brass ones. Figured the effort required would destroy them, since it's a relatively soft metal. Now that I use the stainless parts and tap the holes, it's pretty easy all around. Cost is high, though. Stainless parts are almost $3/ea., as opposed to about $.13/ea. for zinc or $.39 for brass.
llmtelecaster
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Oh, man. I completely destroyed a neck trying to install these. It was a "throw away" neck that I never really had any plans for, but I mean I completely butchered that thing. I drilled the holes to the recommended size but both the inserts and the wood around the edge of the holes completely came apart.
If I ever need something like this done again I'll just take it to the luthier and have him drill out the holes, install hardwood dowels and redrill.
If I ever need something like this done again I'll just take it to the luthier and have him drill out the holes, install hardwood dowels and redrill.
Well, I just ordered the machine screws. I used the link that Bagman posted (since I could not find them anywhere else). Not the slickest web site, but I don't care as long as the things show up. In any event, I ordered 100 of each set of screws. I would have liked to have just ordered 10, but the price break for 100 screws was significant. Since I don't think I'll be building 50 guitars (though I would like to), I think I have a few spares. So, if anybody wants some, I'm sure I'd be willing to part with a few. :icon_smile:
Well, I pointed out this tutorial right at the start.
http://www.philtone.com/inserts.html
I just did what he says. What you end up doing is tapping machine-like actual threads in the neck holes, and the inserts match the threads. As he said, he tried the jam nuts. I still have some of those, that I expect to use up on swamp ash and alder bodies for mounting moveable Hipshot Trilogys and bridges.
http://www.philtone.com/inserts.html
I just did what he says. What you end up doing is tapping machine-like actual threads in the neck holes, and the inserts match the threads. As he said, he tried the jam nuts. I still have some of those, that I expect to use up on swamp ash and alder bodies for mounting moveable Hipshot Trilogys and bridges.
ZionWarmoth
Junior Member
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A lot of good stuff, I'm doing mine with SS insert and a tap, here a pick of the first ones I did just with a hand drill, hex key and not that good inserts, anyway they worked fine.
S
SalsaNChips
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Does anybody know of a torque measurement for the neck bolts? I have torque wrenches in both foot and inch pound ratings and would like to use then to makes sure my neck bolts are at the correct, identical tension.
Cagey
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I think the spec is "Just short of stripped threads", which is hard to do. You're more likely to strip out the head than the shaft/hole.
Wood isn't like metal, where you can predict density, shear strength, etc. It's variable, even within a species, even from the same tree. Then, there are different woods, different fasteners, and different fastener lengths.
Wood isn't like metal, where you can predict density, shear strength, etc. It's variable, even within a species, even from the same tree. Then, there are different woods, different fasteners, and different fastener lengths.
FWIW, I recieved the machine screws today from the site Bagman had found. They look great, but it did take a month, an unanswered email and two phone calls to get the things here. I think they're honest but poorly organized. The good news is that they finally showed up. The bad news is a couple of weeks after I ordered them I realized I had ordered the wrong length on one set. I wasn't about to order more until these showed up and were OK. So, now I need to order some more. I hope I don't have to wait another month.
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