Threaded wood insert help needed
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Cagey
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Were those the black or gold finished parts?
I'll tell ya - for some reason, I couldn't find those the first time I looked for them, so I've always use the brushed stainless screws, and they look good with black, gold and chrome neck plates. It's a nice accent that doesn't stand out or draw the eye at all, and you really don't see the things very often anyway since they're on the back. If you can live with that, your number of choices of vendor skyrockets. I use McMaster-Carr, but just about any vendor with a decent stock of fasteners will have stainless steel Phillips oval head 8-32 machine screws.
I'll tell ya - for some reason, I couldn't find those the first time I looked for them, so I've always use the brushed stainless screws, and they look good with black, gold and chrome neck plates. It's a nice accent that doesn't stand out or draw the eye at all, and you really don't see the things very often anyway since they're on the back. If you can live with that, your number of choices of vendor skyrockets. I use McMaster-Carr, but just about any vendor with a decent stock of fasteners will have stainless steel Phillips oval head 8-32 machine screws.
They were Black Oxide screws. I agree the brushed stainless ones would look fine, so I'm being really picky about wanting the black ones.
Regarding cutting the longer ones, I could do that except that I never seem to do a very good job of it. I tend to screw up the threads and of course, even on small screws, hack sawing through steel isn't much fun. Of course, I've never had a vice before which I just recently purchased, so it would probably be a lot easier now (especially if I bought a new hack saw blade).
Regarding cutting the longer ones, I could do that except that I never seem to do a very good job of it. I tend to screw up the threads and of course, even on small screws, hack sawing through steel isn't much fun. Of course, I've never had a vice before which I just recently purchased, so it would probably be a lot easier now (especially if I bought a new hack saw blade).
Cagey
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If you didn't think sawing through steel was any fun, you haven't lived until you've tried sawing through stainless. The fun factor drops right below zero and goes negative. On the plus side, you will invent new cuss words which may come in handy on other projects.
S
SalsaNChips
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A vise and a dremel tool w/cutting wheel and you are done in seconds, stainless or not.
My dremel (actually, a Chicago Electric 4 speed direct drive) and "box 'o bits" is the best problem solver EVER.
My dremel (actually, a Chicago Electric 4 speed direct drive) and "box 'o bits" is the best problem solver EVER.
Yeah, I can see how the vice grips thing would be a test. You can, however, drill a hole in an unobtrusive place on a bed frame, tool bench etc. and screw the screws into it, then saw off the tips poking out. As long as you use a correct, virgin, tapered screw to cut the initial threads into the neck wood (with a bit of wax), on the ones that are sawed, you really just need to make sure to clear out any bent threads or little jagged pieces that would re-cut some new grooves. A needle file is nice but even just a beater pocket knife that can scrape out any thread shrapnel will do. Nobody's going to see them.... And you know the threads should turn completely freely though the body holes, right? So , instead of starting clockwise you just leave the weight of the screwdriver on them and turn counterclockwise slowly till you feel the thread drop into the groove then screw it down. Unless you'd rather wait another month for the mail man instead of playing a half-hour later... :icon_scratch:
OK, the screws that I screwed up on are now in transit. This time, I only waited a week before calling and checking on my order. They told me that they would ship this Tuesday and they did. This is the only place I know to get these and if, like me, you have to have them then here's the link:
http://www.aaronsgeneralstore.com/
Just be aware...
1) It will take at least a week for them to ship.
2) You will probably have to call and check on your order. I had to look up the phone number on Google.
3) If you click on the BBB link on their home page, they have an F rating. Their phone number is on the BBB page.
With that said, they did have them and they did fill my order (just a little slow).
http://www.aaronsgeneralstore.com/
Just be aware...
1) It will take at least a week for them to ship.
2) You will probably have to call and check on your order. I had to look up the phone number on Google.
3) If you click on the BBB link on their home page, they have an F rating. Their phone number is on the BBB page.
With that said, they did have them and they did fill my order (just a little slow).
I finally got everything I needed to do my threaded inserts and was able to get them installed this weekend. I had to purchase almost everything including a drill press, the x-y vise Cagey recommended as well as the inserts, machine screws, insert driver and bottoming tap. All in all, it was a pretty expensive ordeal except of course everything except the inserts and screws will be reused.
I used some rubberized shelf lining (folded a couple of times) to protect the neck in the vise which worked pretty well. It held it in place securely and protected the finish. I did everything pretty much as has been already described in this thread. Lined up the holes with a small bit that fit the existing hole. Drilled each hole twice incrementing the bit size to get to the right size (not sure this was necessary). Used the drill press to keep the alignment for the tap and insert driver but actually screwed them in manually.
It all worked out well. Thanks to everyone for the instructions!
I used some rubberized shelf lining (folded a couple of times) to protect the neck in the vise which worked pretty well. It held it in place securely and protected the finish. I did everything pretty much as has been already described in this thread. Lined up the holes with a small bit that fit the existing hole. Drilled each hole twice incrementing the bit size to get to the right size (not sure this was necessary). Used the drill press to keep the alignment for the tap and insert driver but actually screwed them in manually.
It all worked out well. Thanks to everyone for the instructions!
Cagey
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Congratulations! I'm glad that worked out for you! Plus, now you have a drill press! How cool is that? It can also do double duty as an arbor press for installing bridge/tailpiece mounting bushings, string ferrules, tuner ferrules and things of that nature. You can also do some limited drum sanding if you get one of these little kits...
$15 in the box, out the door. Order some trash bags or socks or something to get over the $25 mark, and you could have free shipping as well.
$15 in the box, out the door. Order some trash bags or socks or something to get over the $25 mark, and you could have free shipping as well.
My last tool order (which came last Friday) included a drum sanding kit. I needed it to finish the router template I needed for my Guitar Fetish project. I was shocked I couldn't find those at the Home Depot so rather than run all over town looking, I just ordered some off the internet. I did pick up some Forstner bits at Home Depot, though.
I was also proud of myself for the deal I got on the drill press purchase. It's a 10" Ryobi just like what's sold at Home Depot. Through Craig's List, I found a place that sells returns, discontinued or damaged items from Home Depot, Sears and someplace else I can't remember. A little dump of a warehouse space but I got the drill press for half what it'd cost me at Home Depot. It was obviously a return but the only problem I see with it is a casting problem with one of the parts that would never affect usability. I gotta call them and see if I can score a Dremel!
I was also proud of myself for the deal I got on the drill press purchase. It's a 10" Ryobi just like what's sold at Home Depot. Through Craig's List, I found a place that sells returns, discontinued or damaged items from Home Depot, Sears and someplace else I can't remember. A little dump of a warehouse space but I got the drill press for half what it'd cost me at Home Depot. It was obviously a return but the only problem I see with it is a casting problem with one of the parts that would never affect usability. I gotta call them and see if I can score a Dremel!
Cagey
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I'm not sure when it started, but some time back the return policies at a lot of stores got much more liberal. As a result, there are a lot of products brought back for no or incredibly petty reasons, but which can no longer be sold as new. The deals you can get on that stuff can be astounding. Everything's made in China anymore, so there's really no sending it back for repair, so what are they gonna do? Toss it? Nope. Sell it cheap. People who know which end of a screwdriver goes on the screw can make good use of a lot of that stuff.
The music stuff too. If you know for a fact that you wanted, say, a Hardwire RV7 reverb pedal, you almost might just as well wait till AMC or Musician's Fiend is selling a "restock" because it happens all the time. Some kid buys a pedal, plugs his Squier into it then into the Peavey Backstage 10. And because the ad told him the pedal would make him sound like God, and it didn't - must be broken. The magazines almost seem to advocate trying everything out and sending it back. Though it must works out OK for the stores, because people won't send too much back - and the B-stock, return price is probably where they start to make a profit anyway - the rest is just gravy.
S
swarfrat
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Rockler appears to be a good source:
Item #33209, Steel 8-32, 8pk for $4.49
and the driver too:
Item #49336, #8 - 32 tpi Power Drive Threaded Insert Tool for $10.99
Item #33209, Steel 8-32, 8pk for $4.49
and the driver too:
Item #49336, #8 - 32 tpi Power Drive Threaded Insert Tool for $10.99
S
swarfrat
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Just FTR -
http://www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-topics/wood/146-wood-strengths.html lists the compressive strength of sugar maple (the highest listed species of maple for that metric) before crushing at 7,830 PSI. The highest figure for any wood species listed was 10,180 for Black Locust. (I looked up Wenge which is described as VERY high, and found a figure of 12330 psi)
EZ-Lok Brass Threaded Insert, UNC Threads, #8-32 Threads, 0.375" Length, 45000 psi Tensile Strength, Made In US, $6.75 for a pack Of 25
Doing the math, the screw will fail before the wood, which will crush before THOSE brass inserts give way.
http://www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-topics/wood/146-wood-strengths.html lists the compressive strength of sugar maple (the highest listed species of maple for that metric) before crushing at 7,830 PSI. The highest figure for any wood species listed was 10,180 for Black Locust. (I looked up Wenge which is described as VERY high, and found a figure of 12330 psi)
EZ-Lok Brass Threaded Insert, UNC Threads, #8-32 Threads, 0.375" Length, 45000 psi Tensile Strength, Made In US, $6.75 for a pack Of 25
Doing the math, the screw will fail before the wood, which will crush before THOSE brass inserts give way.
Jumble Jumble
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Isn't that the exact same argument people use about capacitors? "If you're building a $3000 guitar, does it really matter if your tone capacitor costs $50?".
It's not "skimping" if the part is suitable for the job, just because a part is available that exceeds the required strength by even more. When someone strips the threads out of their brass inserts, then I'll consider insisting on steel for my next set. But as it is, I have a bunch of brass ones knocking around and I would have to be an idiot to strip those. I have one guitar without inserts that's had its neck removed perhaps 50 times in the last 10 years, and I've managed not to strip the maple. I think brass or steel will both be fine.
It's not "skimping" if the part is suitable for the job, just because a part is available that exceeds the required strength by even more. When someone strips the threads out of their brass inserts, then I'll consider insisting on steel for my next set. But as it is, I have a bunch of brass ones knocking around and I would have to be an idiot to strip those. I have one guitar without inserts that's had its neck removed perhaps 50 times in the last 10 years, and I've managed not to strip the maple. I think brass or steel will both be fine.
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