Thinking about fixed bridges...

[JonatanOTG]

I've been thinking about fixed bridges for the last couple of weeks now and I have a couple of questions. (This is pretty much based on the body builder on Warmoth's site )

[list type=decimal]
[*]Sustain. Has fixed bridges with strings-through-body better sustain? Compared to a non strings-through-body I mean.  :icon_scratch:
[*]Angled neck pocket. I'm not sure I get why this is needed with some bridges. Stability? Even string height? In my opinion, an angled neck pocket would cause trouble if you lay your guitar down an a table or something, I mean then the guitar would like rest on just the head and the bottom of the body. (Kind of, I hope you get my point.)
[*]The Gotoh 510. Is it a good/stable bridge? It kind of looks like the PRS stoptail but it has individual intonation screws and that got to be a good thing. I tried it on a strat (in the body builder, that is) but it looked kind of weird with the pickguard...  :laughing7:
[*]Whats the difference between the ordinary fender standard flat mount and the narrow spaced one? I mean, what difference will it make when it comes to playing. Easier chord playing or something like that?
[/list]

(I guess you're doing this right now:  :doh

:cool01:

 

[AutoBat]

1: some say there is some more sustain in string-thru, it's possibly all made up, either way should be nearly identical.
2: angled neck pockets are to compensate for some bridges (primarily Tune-O-Matic) that are higher off the wood than a strat/tele style, so that you can get decent action on the neck.
3. i've never heard anything against the 510. more intonation is always preferable to less.
4. ordinary fender standard flat mount will have the strings spaced a little wider than the narrow spaced one.  it will affect the feel of the strumming hand mostly, some nominal difference at the neck end.

 

[Updown]

2: angled neck pockets are to compensate for some bridges (primarily Tune-O-Matic) that are higher off the wood than a strat/tele style, so that you can get decent action on the neck.

Also...
You can still use a TOM without the angled pocket.

Just need the bridge recessed like this.

 

[JonatanOTG]

1: some say there is some more sustain in string-thru, it's possibly all made up, either way should be nearly identical.
2: angled neck pockets are to compensate for some bridges (primarily Tune-O-Matic) that are higher off the wood than a strat/tele style, so that you can get decent action on the neck.
3. i've never heard anything against the 510. more intonation is always preferable to less.
4. ordinary fender standard flat mount will have the strings spaced a little wider than the narrow spaced one.  it will affect the feel of the strumming hand mostly, some nominal difference at the neck end.

Pretty much answered all my questions, thanks!

 

[JonatanOTG]

Also...
You can still use a TOM without the angled pocket.

Just need the bridge recessed like this.

That's an interesting option, looks pretty cool!  :cool01:

Seems like all bridges without string-through-body has to have the angled pocket, am I right?

 

[AutoBat]

ANGLED NECK POCKETS
We offer two different angles.  The big angle is for use with the Gibson Tune-O-Matic type bridges, the Gotoh 510 bridge and the Schaller 456 bridge (all stud mount).  The small angle is for use with a non-recessed Floyd Rose bridge rout to minimize any need for neck shims.

This custom feature option is $10 extra.

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/GuitarNeckPocket.aspx

 

[Updown]

Seems like all bridges without string-through-body has to have the angled pocket, am I right?

WRONG  :icon_biggrin:

This help ..... save me rambling  :icon_jokercolor:
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BridgeRoutingOptions.aspx
Gibson style TOM and Tail, Gotoh 510,Schaller 456 NEED angled neck pockets.
Another one .... Hipshot Piano Bridge

A Recessed TOM is only for Flat Top guitars, like in that pic of mine.
If your doing a LP or Tele Carve Top you then need to use the angled neck pocket.

Strat and Tele string though or hard tails Don't need angled pocket.

Example ...
This SG is using a Strat Flat mount string though. Has NO angled neck pocket.
http://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?i=M871&Body=2&Path=Body

Then this one ....
http://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?i=m866&Body=2&Path=Body
Using Gibson like TOM and Tail, has a angled neck pocket.
ccasion14:

Edit ... sorry AutoBat didn't see yours  :doh:

 

[keeper006]

The Gotoh 510 is a great bridge. One of the best I have used for carved top guitars.  :redflag:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I'm not for sure, but on the Carved Top Tele, you can do either the recessed or standard T-O-M.  Obviously either would require the appropriate neck pocket.

 

[Updown]

I'm not for sure, but on the Carved Top Tele, you can do either the recessed or standard T-O-M.  Obviously either would require the appropriate neck pocket.

Yep my mistake on that one  :toothy11:
Must be the LP's  :doh:

 

[JonatanOTG]

Thanks for the replies!

 

[JonatanOTG]

I just saw this fixed bridge that's pretty much like a standard hardtail, but without string through. Here's a picture.

I didn't know such were made at all (thought they'd be non-stable due to the fact that they're non-string-through  :toothy11, but apparently I was wrong then.
Any thoughts on this kind of fixed bridge? I believe it's called a 'top loaded hardtail'. I really like the idea because it has the same intonation options as a standard strat bridge but I won't need to flip the guitar over when changing strings...  :doh:

On Warmoth's site I found the Schaller 475 bridge, which looks pretty cool and seems to be a top loaded hardtail as well. Anyone who tried it out?

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Seems like between the ballend and breakover point on the saddle, it would either hit the bottom of the saddle or intonation screw.  Plus, it would seem like a booger to fish through there, but none of those things should affect the functionality.

 

[Cagey]

It does look like it would be frustrating getting the strings to thread through.

 

[JonatanOTG]

As you mention it... I think you're probably right.  :-\

How about the Schaller bridge then (http://www.warmoth.com/Schaller-475-6-String-Flat-Mount-Bridge-Chrome-P575C712.aspx), anyone tried it out?

 

[stubhead]

The 475 is a great bridge, I just ordered my 3rd one. I have some special reasons for needing toploaders... there is also a string-through option for the Schaller in their own catalog, but you'd have to track down a supplier.

http://guitar-bridge.com/hp308304/Guitarbridge-3D-6-String-anchoring-from-underneath.htm

Skuttlefunk and others have done some very convincing testing of the "string-through vs. toploader" sustain wars. And as many, many people have pointed out, there is one really easy way to "increase string tension" - turn the tuning peg! Other than that it's pretty hard to get a string more anchored than  - anchored. Unless the parts are actually absorbing vibrations due to active rattling, it'll probably work. I have my own suspicion about "balance" between parts - i.e., really heavy brass bridges work well in really heavy hardwood bodies, but a big brass chunk is a mis-match on a lightweight ash body. But I have no "real" proof as in data. Which doesn't matter - ten years after the Tone Pros "locking" feature was proven to be meaningless except to keep it from falling off, guitars using Tone Pros are still claiming tone and sustain virtues for it.... the hype pipe is really sucked dry, huh?

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I just put a big chunk o'brass on the back of a Floyd in an Ash body and I'm pretty happy.

 

[stubhead]

And of course before you did so, you put on a set of brand new strings with the old block, hooked up your frequency analyzer, oscilloscope and used the Acme Pick-R-Tron to provide an exacting string excitation, then recorded all the results so you can compare it to the new blo... uh-oh. You didn't just give $40 to some guy who said he'd turn you into a cool dude, did you? I had to pawn my Pick-R-Tron to buy his shit... but I was a cool dude already! Uh-oh...

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Nope. I have a Callaham block in a Strat, and I was pleased with the effect. I was lucky in that respect that I had two basically identical guitars (that sounded the same as each other unplugged), so I could restring them both and then just play them both to hear the difference. In the Strat block one of the nicest things is actually the total elimination of any "play" in the arm, which admittedly doesn't factor in on the Floyd.

So when I came to build a Floyd guitar, I just decided that I would put a heavy block on to start with - it's pretty cheap and I'd rather do it before the build than try to upgrade it later. The block that came off the Floyd was a laughable piece of junk though, almost to the point where I thought "if it affected tone at all I think they'd at least use something a bit heavier than this".

The actual reason I posted though, was to say that the heaviness of the block and the lightness of the Ash didn't seem to be incompatible as you had mentioned above.

Additionally, if you're saying that process is the only way I could judge if something approved my tone, then presumably you don't believe anything affects tone, as nobody (including you) ever tests things in that way.

 

[Cagey]

Additionally, if you're saying that process is the only way I could judge if something approved my tone, then presumably you don't believe anything affects tone, as nobody (including you) ever tests things in that way.

That's an incredible leap of logic you took there <grin>

I think what he's saying is that a lot of things affect timbre and sustain, so the only way to determine the effect a single variable has on those characteristics is to isolate it. That is, eliminate all the other variables so the only one left is the one you're testing for.

In the case of testing "sustain" blocks (and I use the term "sustain" loosely), even if you conduct all your tests on a single guitar you're still likely to have differences from the age/gauge of the strings, their mounted length, the geometry of the block, the adjustments of the counterbalance springs, etc. Of course, some of those things will almost certainly change because they're what we're testing for: what effect does the difference make? But, you do have to do your best to minimize those differences so you get a result that can be directly attributed to the major change you made.