The narrow spaced strat

[Cederick]

The Vintage Strat bridge looks good, but is it too wide for the necks? I hear about strings slipping and shit like that...

These however, have a V-shaped saddle, does that make palm muting hard?
http://www.warmoth.com/Stratreg-Flat-Mount-Bridge-Humbucker-Spacing-Black-P582C705.aspx

 

[bagman67]

The meat of your hand is more than soft enough to overcome the vee-shaping in the saddles on that thing.  Your hand muffles way more than just the break-point over the saddles when you palm-mute. 


The real mother is when you have to contend with the height adjustment set screws - if you attack that end of the guitar really aggressively, you can shred your hand pretty good if the screws stand too proud of the saddles.  Cagey has posted links to suppliers of various lengths of hex-keyed set screws somewhere around here...


Rock on, etc., etc.


Bagman

 

[Cederick]

Ok, yeah I really hope it works...

But what about the vintage bridge? Will it be too wide for the neck?

 

[bagman67]

That part on the W. site that you linked to actually has slightly narrower string spacing than the true vintage bridge - 2.125"  instead of 2.25" .  So no problem there. 


In any case, Warmoth sells only one Strat-style neck heel dimension, and unless you get a superwide neck with the overhangs at the heel end, you don't have a real choice.  The question is this, I guess:  Is 1/16" (per fretboard edge) going to make any difference in your playing?  How wide is your vibrato bend?  I would see if I could find a similarly equipped guitar in your local shops, and try it out.  Bring a tape measure so you can actually see whether you're test-driving what you think you're after.


If you're considering a vintage-style hardtail bridge, I encourage you to check out the Hipshot parts - I really, really like this one that I have installed on my green Telecaster.  If you need a black one, though, sorry - it's only available in stainless steel.


http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=329

 

[Cagey]

It's 2 1/8" spacing, and your neck is going to be 2 3/16" wide at the 22nd fret. So, you'll only have 1/32" of space above and below your low and high E strings. That's pretty close to the edge of the fretboard. I don't know why they'd call that "narrow spacing"... if it was any wider, the strings wouldn't even contact the frets when you pressed down on them.

As for the saddle height adjustment screws, I'm not sure you can put shorter screws in that obsolete saddle style. It's just a piece of stamped, roll-formed steel, so the threads are very shallow and are in the top of the saddle. Unless you have set screws that are exactly the right height, which I'd venture to say would be nearly impossible without a tremendous amount of work, you're always going to have set screw abrasion on the heel of your hand.

You'd probably be better off with the American Standard flat mount...

String spacing is 2 1/16", and you have solid saddles, which are a superior part. They also allow you to put in set screws that won't tear you up, as the saddle is threaded all the way through.

In any event, various height set screws can be had here.

 

[Cagey]

If black or gold is needed, Hipshot also makes this style of hardtail...

... which is machined from solid brass and has stainless saddles. It's also a 2 1/16" spaced part. They cost a bit more, but it's a very nice part. Best price I've found is here.

 

[Cederick]

Looks like the edges of the "baseplate" is in the way of the palm? :icon_scratch:

Also, yeah, black is the way to go. White guitar with all-black hardware

 

[Cagey]

Looks like the edges of the "baseplate" is in the way of the palm? :icon_scratch:

No. Not a problem at all. And because the base is brass, unmuted strings ring much more clearly. Warmoth will also drill specifically for that bridge, although it's an adder. You just tell them you want bridge drilling dimensions to match a Hipshot Flat Mount SB 5105-010. Unfortunately, it's an additional $45 because they have to do it by hand. Or, you could ask them to not drill for the bridge at all, and do it yourself. It's not hard. There's no routing involved.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

The ABM 3256 is a nice alternative. Perfect for the hand mutes and with a saddel locking design that is very stable.

 

[Cederick]

Looks like the edges of the "baseplate" is in the way of the palm? :icon_scratch:

No. Not a problem at all. And because the base is brass, unmuted strings ring much more clearly. Warmoth will also drill specifically for that bridge, although it's an adder. You just tell them you want bridge drilling dimensions to match a Hipshot Flat Mount SB 5105-010. Unfortunately, it's an additional $45 because they have to do it by hand. Or, you could ask them to not drill for the bridge at all, and do it yourself. It's not hard. There's no routing involved.

Which is why I actually think about doing the drilling myself for a Gotoh hardtail. It looks great, I don't like the looks of the other hardtails... :dontknow: eeeh, what the heck... I might just go with a narrow spaced...

 

[Cagey]

Go for it. Everything out there works; how well it works is at the intersection of mechanical design and personal preference. So, there is no definitive answer to which one is the best. Some people can tolerate things as bad as the Jaguar/Jazzmaster setup, while others want a Floyd/Wilkinson design.

 

[Cederick]

If I went with the narrow spaced and actually couldn't palm mute as I want, I maybe just could drill my own screw holes a Gotoh bridge I guess, the string through holes wouldn't be totally out of place?

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Callaham makes a nice hardtail but not in black:

http://www.callahamguitars.com/partsstr.htm#hardtail

Or if you're interested, the mythical "correct length saddles screws" for vintage style saddles are available here:

http://www.callahamguitars.com/partsstr.htm#saddles (scroll down a little to find the screws alone)

 

[DLD]

That part on the W. site that you linked to actually has slightly narrower string spacing than the true vintage bridge - 2.125"  instead of 2.25" .  So no problem there. 


In any case, Warmoth sells only one Strat-style neck heel dimension, and unless you get a superwide neck with the overhangs at the heel end, you don't have a real choice.  The question is this, I guess:  Is 1/16" (per fretboard edge) going to make any difference in your playing?  How wide is your vibrato bend?  I would see if I could find a similarly equipped guitar in your local shops, and try it out.  Bring a tape measure so you can actually see whether you're test-driving what you think you're after.


If you're considering a vintage-style hardtail bridge, I encourage you to check out the Hipshot parts - I really, really like this one that I have installed on my green Telecaster.  If you need a black one, though, sorry - it's only available in stainless steel.


http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=329

Warning I got that Hipshot bridge. You will need a .720 mod unless you want the saddles ridiculously high and intonation all the way back on the bridge... I suggest getting the strings through holes only and a different bridge type...

 

[bagman67]

Interesting  - I'm using the stainless "vintage style" Hipshot bridge on a Tele body with a Warmoth 22-fret neck with the overhang, and no special treatment for the pocket, and it's a perfect fit.  I wonder if Hipshot has some manufacturing inconsistencies on this bridge - maybe two different plate thicknesses they use, but don't document, or something like that. 


In any case, I'm sorry your experience has been as frustrating as it has, DLD.  Hang in there.


Bagman

 

[DLD]

Thanks. Yeah I wonder myself.

It's a learning experience. I think on my next project I'll have it down to what to expect and what parts I need to use...

 

[Cagey]

Interesting  - I'm using the stainless "vintage style" Hipshot bridge on a Tele body with a Warmoth 22-fret neck with the overhang, and no special treatment for the pocket, and it's a perfect fit.  I wonder if Hipshot has some manufacturing inconsistencies on this bridge - maybe two different plate thicknesses they use, but don't document, or something like that. 

On the Hipshot model in question, there are two different base plate thicknesses - .125" and .175" - and I've had both, measured them both and found them to be as advertised. So, it's not inconsistencies, it's by design.

I just wondered, though, about the thickness of the saddles themselves. I'm too far away in time from my original problem with the those bridges, so I can't easily identify the original saddles. But, I have three different sets of similar saddles in my Drawer Of Misfit Parts, and they range in thickness from .185" to .240". That's quite a range (.055") and would account for the wild differences in height that have been seen.

Makes sense, because I could never find anything dimensionally wrong with the neck pocket I had trouble with, or the neck thickness I used on the guitar that I put that Hipshot on. I hated to attribute it some sort of Twilight Zone guitar world or stupidity on Hipshot's part. But, lowering the neck pocket floor in that body fixed it, so I called it good.

I feel better now.

 

[DLD]

But Cagey, they only have that base plate option on the bridges with the U (That sort of hold the saddles in place, I think the plate is brass). The vintage and modern only come in one base plate, stainless also...

Lowering the neck pocket also fixed my issues. But many out there may not be up to that task.

 

[Cagey]

Maybe we're talking about two different bridges. My point was the saddles can be different thicknesses, which can catch you by surprise.