Testing 1,2,3

Tonar8352

Tonar8352

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This one came back home for a new set of pickups.  I don’t think I ever posted this guitar but it is a nice one-piece alder with a Birdseye/ Pau Ferro neck that I did about 4 years ago.  We have never been happy with this particular set of Lindy Fralin pickups so we are going to test it with some of TroubledTreble hand made pickups. This will be a great A/B test on his pickups.  I put this guitar through the paces tonight using the 57 Tweed Tremolux with the Uncle Spot stand-alone reverb.  I have a real good feel for how it sounds now.   Acoustically the thing sings but out of the pickups into the amp it’s to brittle with the only real usable tone coming from the neck pickup.  We will wire the new pickups in on Friday and then I’ll put it through the same rig and see how it sounds.  I will also A/B it against my Strats so it is going to have some stiff competition.  I’ll add pictures of it being rewired.

IMG_2719.jpg
 
Ooooohhhh.............This is what we like.  A good bit of stiff competition for TT's pickups.  I'm looking forward to hearing the results.

Nice guitar by the way.
 
I'm also interested in this one.  Ive been looking to swap out the pups in my strat for awhile now, and I've been considering both Fralins and TT
 
I don't mean to hijack Tonar's post here but I might as well post my impressions so far of Troubled Tele's pickups (pickup in my case). I received a large but very light package this morning containing just 1 single coil pickup. So 10/10 for packaging there. Opened it up to find a really professionally done box with the previously mentioned pickup (and mounting kit) within. The pickup itself looks and feels really well made and the smell of wax potting is reassuring (well that's what he said it was, it smells like butter to me). The real plus with TT though has been his simply excellent customer service, every part of the order was carefully discussed and he was willing to put up with a few daft questions too.

From a customer relations and service point of view I can really recommend TT.  :icon_thumright:

Still not got the pickup in my lapsteel and unfortunately it'll have to wait until I have enough spare time to get the rest of the electonics sorted out.

So I'm awaiting Tonar's review with great interest.
 
Here are the pickups installed.  I liked how the pickups are marked with the manufacturing dates and the position markings of N, M, and B.  

IMG_2727.jpg


We tested three guitars.  My two Ash Strats with Maple necks and the one with the TT pickups in an Alder with Maple/Pau Ferro neck.  There were 4 of us in my music room when we did the test.  We had one drummer, a full time professional sound engineer from West Coast Sound and Lights, and one other guitar player along with myself playing each guitar before sharing our opinions.

We used a 1957 Fender Tweed Tremolux with a 12’ Weber Speaker and an Uncle Spot Reverb.  We ran the amp at about 2 for clean, 6 for crunch and 12 for scream.  

The consensus from all of us was the Callaham special order Fralin Hendrix/SRV were far and away the best.  The Callaham special order Fralin real 54 were the next best and the TT pickups last.

The TT pickups had a narrow focused range and were brittle sounding compared to the other ones. They had more distortion but they did not lose the highs that most over- wound pickups do.  In that regard they live up to the maker’s goal.

We also tried the TT pickups out at Uncle Spots shop after Ron wired them in for me.  We used my 1973 Princeton Reverb with a Weber 15” speaker.  Ron’s immediate impression was that they were too bright.  We pulled out his 74 Strat and it was much warmer and fuller sounding.  

The last test will be to hear from the owner of the guitar himself.  He has been playing the instrument for 4 years so he will best be able to tell us if those pickups are a marked improvement over the previous ones or if we will be dropping in some Callaham special order Fralin Hendrix/SRV instead.  

I think if your style is hard rocking, in your face, driving saturated amps you may well like these pickups.  For me, right now, my pickup of choice will continue to be the Hendrix/SRV/EJ from Bill Callaham.  

I do want to thank TroubledTreble for the opportunity to test these out for him.  
 
Thank you Tonar for giving an honest opinion and review of the pickups. I do appreciate your time and efforts and the test you put together.

The pickups I sent are one configuration of  3 main configurations. The sub sets using different mags and different wire and small changes to the base design. I have to admit that I did not think there would be a thread about this and did not consider that upon having you review them. It was my hope to recieve feedback about this particullar set and possibly make changes and improvements. When I saw the thread started I decided to not say anything and just let it be put out there good or bad.

I know the Callahams use Alnico 3 magnets, I am not sure about the Hendrix/SRV, possibly 3's also.  The pickups I sent use Alnico 5. The Alnico 3 pickups are usually a little warmer sounding.

The set I sent was Cryogenically treated. I know you prefer them but I did not have an opportunity to try them out myself. I am also curious about that cap on the volume pot. What value is that?  I have never done that mod.

I have not had any experience of them being too bright though I do think the design opened them up a bit. One issue I have had with other pickups in the past is needing to always play with the tone at 10. Now I can turn it back once in a while.

For testing I used a black korina strat and and alder strat through a 66' Bassman into a 2x12 or a 4x10 cab. The tone was always very warm and well recieved by others. There are several local musicians who are using these pickups which they used to replace thier stock Fender, Lace, and some replaced their Duncans.

There are some interesting things with the design that are unlike other pickups. I am always testing and making little changes. There are so many variables and many configurations to use. I have been focused on just using Alnico 5 magnets so far as to keep all the results easy to manage. I have plans for Alnico 2 and 3.

Naturally I would have hoped you had better results. I sent these for the purpose of recieving feedback good or bad so that I may continually make improvements. There are some more sets out there and I am sure they will add their impressions in time.

-TT-
 
I thought I might share a little about how these pickups are put together. I won't tell you exactly how it's constructed but I will tell you how it works.

The pickup is wound in a way that reduces the inductance. It works really well and drops the inductance significantly.

In fairly simple terms: Typically the lower the inductance the brighter the pickup and the higher the inductance the muddier. Adding winds to the coil will raise the inductance and make it muddy which is why hotter pickups loose some of the top end.

I wanted to make a higher output pickup without loosing the top end. I could wind a pickup with a resistanc value around 7K and have an inductance value the same as 6K pickup wound the traditional way. But that is not neccesarily a good thing. I don't think hotter is always better.

Since the pickups that I sent to Tonar were to be cryogenically treated which is supposed to smooth things out a bit, I sent him a set that was hot but still a little low inductance. So it didn't work as well as planned. My fault for not checking that first.

I have the ability to vary the design and not lower the inductance quite so much. There is a fine balance there somewhere and that is what I have been trying to achieve. I believe I know where that ballance is, but wanted to get others opinions on the different builds. I am interested only in getting it right and having something really good to offer others.
 
I asked Tonar if he could give me a more comparative description. He pm'd me this and I asked him if he'd mind if I posted it. I especially liked the part about a blind test. You just can't ask for a fairer test.

You are correct in thinking that none of what was said was in any way harsh or bashing your pickups.  The Fralins sounded better and the Hendrix/SRV sound by far the best of the 3 guitars, by far.

I had a fellow guitar maker drop off a color sample today so I had him do a blind test on the guitars.  I just told him I wanted his opinion on some pickups he had no idea of what was what.    We had the same setup as last night.  I handed him your pickups first and right away he said he like them and asked what kind they were.  Next I gave him the Hendrix/SRV and immediately he said I like these better.  Then I gave him the Real 54.  He did not like them as much as the Hendrix/SRV.  I asked him to rate them 1,2,3, and he chose to rate them, 1. Hendrix/SRV, 2 Real 54, 3 yours. 

After we were done I had him read the post and asked him if he felt I was accurate and he agreed. 

So let me try to describe what we are hearing.  Lets use a clock as our reference.  9 is Bass, 12 is Mid and 3 is Treble. 

Yours tend to go from 11 to 2 and they have more edge or drive.  Obviously they are hotter. They like the tweed amp and the higher the volume the meaner they get, a good thing.

The 54’s would go from 9 to 2 with a less drive.  The thing these don’t have that the H/SRV have is they start compressing when the amp gets past 7.  Somehow they lose their complexity.  They sound killer clean to crunch but don’t step on them or the compress too much.

The H/SRV go from 9 to 3 and the best part is they stay there at all volumes.  Everyone that has heard those pickups likes them the best.
Click to expand...



 
I believe it's not a really bad thing that review by now... For the time you're making pickups, you're on the right thrill... Put the 5th gear on  :glasses9:
 
What a great thread!  A complete lack of bashing with civil, informative, and non-prejudicial first hand information.  It's definitely another reason of why I love this board. 

I especially like hearing the thought process behind the pickup's design from the hands that made them.  :eek:ccasion14:
 
Dude, you're brilliant.  :headbang1:

Just keep tweaking and you'll take over the market in no time.  :icon_thumright:
 
I've gotta chime in here, I've heard 3 or 4 different sets of TT pups, the first set in his black korina played by a buddy of mine in a local band sounded great, The next set seemed a bit bright, but at the same time had a sound that you usually only hear from a hot humbucker pickup, while another set had great tone , but not enough output.

So in short, what is happening is that TT has created a very clever and labor intensive way to wind pups, I know the secret, but that's TT's secret to reviel not mine. He is in the research and development stages of this new pickup design, and is perhaps premature for mass release. Tonars unbiased test is one way for TT to see where he's at and figure out where he needs to go. 

As a friend of TT I can tell you he is driven from deep within, and will figure out the correct ballance of output vs. tone and he will nail it. When he does, get in line behind me to get a set. They will awesome
 
Sorry for the delay on getting this feedback posted.  I have been on vacation and just now got a written review from the owner of the guitar.  He had a very positive reaction as soon as he plugged the guitar in so I asked him too write his thoughts down to post.  So here they are.  Remember we replaced a stock set of Fralins with the TT Strat pickups.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK for the new pickups you installed in my guitar. Its like a whole new guitar, they are crisp, clean and have bottom to them.  There's no hum! I already recorded heavily with them and I can’t stop. So, Dude thanks once again and thanks to the gentleman that made them for you.  Christmas came early for me thanks to you, you guitar Master Maker.
God Bless                                                             
Ed Luevano         
P.S. I forgot they are a lot louder too, I'd say maybe 20% or so.
 
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