Telecaster Koa 1-Piece body arrived

[Tomatonator]

To add my 2c the Warmoth photos are taken with a consistent studio-like camera/flash setup and look great but it's good to go and find non professional shots with a google image search of guitars made with the same wood as I have done with the intention of buying a goncalo alves neck. I know it will be less colourful/contrasty than with flash lighting.

Also it's a bit late but I wouldn't order a part that came to $1000AUD (including shipping and insurance) to avoid getting stung the extra AU tax/import duties unless I knew exactly what I was getting and must have it. Is it $100usd to get a neck delivered here? Nice to know. I might have to look at my own shipping options to see if I can do better when the time comes.

Lastly you may not have lost much - see what they go for on ebay and maybe you can sell it and get something else. Otherwise you could try your hand at refinishing it with a red tinged transparent finish if it's not too dark.

 

[Kostas]

Since you said it first, I'll say it too. I don't like the looks of it, it's just a brown guitar body with no interesting grain patterns, IMO. That's the price of Koa these days. Koa has always been a wood of limited availability since the 90's I started playing guitar but now with many woods having restirctions it's price is getting higher and higher. I prefer flamed Koa but I notice Warmoth is using it mostly as a top on mahogany, probably if they put a Koa body with a flamed Koa top in the showcase the price will be $1000+. Since I always wanted a Koa body if I ever buy one I want it to be Koa, not just a Koa top.

I agree with you, I find the natural gloss a little too much on brown bodies, makes them look more furniture than guitars and yes, more plastic looking. I have a Korina body and as beautiful as it is I haven't used it for the same reason. I also haven't managed to sell it for a reasonable price and that shows how bad Warmoth products are on the second hand, even if mine is still unused, even if the company's products are very good. Anything not resembling Fender is hard to sell, if mine was finished in Daphne Blue or Fiesta Red I would have sold it.

You can get rid of the plastic look and feel by taking the finish off and putting oil, it will look less shiny and it will feel more raw. If you can't do it yourself though, removing the finish will cost you and it will raise the price of what you have already paid.

You have an expensive body in your hands. Unless you have no guitar at all I suggest to leave it aside and try selling it. You won't get anything close to the price you paid but you will get more in it's current condition than if you start drilling holes and putting scratches on it. Or you can wait a few more years until Koa cannot be exported outside USA. I'm sure it won't be long and you will have a brand new, finished, one piece Koa body routed and ready to be used. Patience is the key, personally if I don't starve I wait and there will always be someone who wants to take it off my hands.

 

[amigarobbo]

Another one is "Flamed Maple". There's no such thing. It's curly Maple. Go to a lumber yard and ask for flamed Maple, and unless the guy you're talking to is a guitar player, he'll look at you funny. "Flamed" Maple is a finish I think is also credited to Gibson, where a body with a curly Maple face is dyed yellow, then gradually transitioned to red at the edges and finally clear coated. When you move the body in the light, the natural chatoyance of the wood makes the curls seem to move, sorta giving the impression of a flame...

I was going to say the backs of violins have been 'flamed' for hundreds of years,

Some old fiddle, yesterday.

But I don't know if they called it flamed back then?

 

[Tomatonator]

I'm not a big fan of teles or koa but as far as guitar bodies go I'm not particular about 1 piece. As long as it's not a crappy veneer that can be sanded through accidentally then it does the job and looks great You can have another nice wood for the back.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Since you said it first, I'll say it too. I don't like the looks of it, it's just a brown guitar body with no interesting grain patterns, IMO. That's the price of Koa these days. Koa has always been a wood of limited availability since the 90's I started playing guitar but now with many woods having restirctions it's price is getting higher and higher. I prefer flamed Koa but I notice Warmoth is using it mostly as a top on mahogany, probably if they put a Koa body with a flamed Koa top in the showcase the price will be $1000+. Since I always wanted a Koa body if I ever buy one I want it to be Koa, not just a Koa top.

I agree with you, I find the natural gloss a little too much on brown bodies, makes them look more furniture than guitars and yes, more plastic looking. I have a Korina body and as beautiful as it is I haven't used it for the same reason. I also haven't managed to sell it for a reasonable price and that shows how bad Warmoth products are on the second hand, even if mine is still unused, even if the company's products are very good. Anything not resembling Fender is hard to sell, if mine was finished in Daphne Blue or Fiesta Red I would have sold it.

You can get rid of the plastic look and feel by taking the finish off and putting oil, it will look less shiny and it will feel more raw. If you can't do it yourself though, removing the finish will cost you and it will raise the price of what you have already paid.

You have an expensive body in your hands. Unless you have no guitar at all I suggest to leave it aside and try selling it. You won't get anything close to the price you paid but you will get more in it's current condition than if you start drilling holes and putting scratches on it. Or you can wait a few more years until Koa cannot be exported outside USA. I'm sure it won't be long and you will have a brand new, finished, one piece Koa body routed and ready to be used. Patience is the key, personally if I don't starve I wait and there will always be someone who wants to take it off my hands.

I actually prefer that bland pattern in a guitar body over a flame effect (but I do like flame as well).  I think you're on the money; when it's brown it just awful and it transforms into something beautiful when it's red.  The patterns become more prominent.  I think Warmoth thought the same thing and tinted those pictures to make it look red and that is dispicable.  You've given me some good points about putting it into storage and thanks for that.  Although there's not going to be a win out of this; it's just not that marketable and never will be.  I don't have many options though; it's either that or use it to learn how to assemble a guitar by making mistakes!

 

[Punxsutawney]

To add my 2c the Warmoth photos are taken with a consistent studio-like camera/flash setup and look great but it's good to go and find non professional shots with a google image search of guitars made with the same wood as I have done with the intention of buying a goncalo alves neck. I know it will be less colourful/contrasty than with flash lighting.

Also it's a bit late but I wouldn't order a part that came to $1000AUD (including shipping and insurance) to avoid getting stung the extra AU tax/import duties unless I knew exactly what I was getting and must have it. Is it $100usd to get a neck delivered here? Nice to know. I might have to look at my own shipping options to see if I can do better when the time comes.

Lastly you may not have lost much - see what they go for on ebay and maybe you can sell it and get something else. Otherwise you could try your hand at refinishing it with a red tinged transparent finish if it's not too dark.

The guitar body was $US115.55 using UPS worldwide saver.  The neck order, although it's cancelled, was quoted at $US99.88 with USPS Priority Intl.  If you want to find out the costs, just add something to the card and then click the postage options to see the quotes.  I can't remember but I don't think you need an account.  Like you, I didn't intend to go over $AUD1000.00, but that body should have been worth it, or if it looked like the picture it would have been.  If you go over that threshold, you're going to get hit with all sorts of taxes and not just the GST.  There'll be an application tax, a biohazard tax (that one is my favourite!) and an assessment tax for the biohazard tax and more; none of them apply if you stay under the limit.  It's just hilarious!  The courier will hit you up again too for being the broker, but if you want you can avoid that and do it yourself if you're game.  The courier won't tell you that of course.

The red tinged transparent finish sounds a great option, but there's one problem; your use of the word "if".  Unfortunately, it is too dark!  It is very different to the picture!

I have lost and I have lost big; it's not that desirable picture you see.  There's no happy ending.

 

[stratamania]

Does it look the same in any way, shape or form?
If not contact Warmoth and send it back after agreeing

Is it indeed the same piece, without photos, no one can determine how different it is, and this forum is not Warmoth support.

Returns information can be found on this page.

http://www.warmoth.com/Ordering/TermsAndConditions.aspx

 

[Punxsutawney]

Does it look the same in any way, shape or form?
If not contact Warmoth and send it back after agreeing

Is it indeed the same piece, without photos, no one can determine how different it is, and this forum is not Warmoth support.

Returns information can be found on this page.

http://www.warmoth.com/Ordering/TermsAndConditions.aspx

It is clearly the same guitar, but it is not the same colour and it's not a subtle difference.

I am fully aware this is not Warmoth Support.

I am simply sharing my experiences as best as I can.

 

[stratamania]

That is ok, but the only way you can get any kind of resolution and recover part of the loss is via the returns process described at the link I posted.

 

[Cagey]

I was going to say the backs of violins have been 'flamed' for hundreds of years, But I don't know if they called it flamed back then?

No, they didn't call it "flamed', "flamed" describes a finish, not a wood. They did have a different name for it, though, and I'm not making this up. It's called "fiddleback", and the term is used for any curly figured wood, not just Maple.

 

[Cagey]

It is clearly the same guitar, but it is not the same colour and it's not a subtle difference.

I'm wondering how far out of calibration your monitor is. I meant to mention that earlier when you first described Warmoth's picture as "red". It doesn't look red on my monitor at all - it looks brown. But, I have very high resolution (4K) Samsung LCD monitor with LED backlighting and an IPS panel, which is the sort of thing graphic artists and some medical applications use when they want accurate color rendering. CRT monitors are almost always way off, and most LCD monitors have TN panels which are also biased. That would account for the wide disparity between what you saw in the picture and what you got in real life. Warmoth's photographer has posted here on the forum before to describe how he goes about getting the shots he does, as they're very sensitive about how they present their parts for precisely the reason we're having this discussion now. Their whole business model is online - there is no "store" you can go to and buy a body or neck, they're purely just a factory and there are no distributors. So, they spend a disproportionate amount of time and effort making sure their pictures are accurate. It's not just you in Oz, it's the whole world buying based on those pics.

 

[Fat Pete]

It is clearly the same guitar, but it is not the same colour and it's not a subtle difference.

I'm wondering how far out of calibration your monitor is. I meant to mention that earlier when you first described Warmoth's picture as "red". It doesn't look red on my monitor at all - it looks brown.

Wondering - and seeing from what Cagey says - the same thing. If I was asked to describe the colour of that body as pictured, 'red', or even 'reddish' would not come to mind.

 

[BigSteve22]

Punxsutawney, I don't see the posted image as red in any sense of the word. Perhaps a little orange highlighted, but definitely brown overall.

I'm not a Pro, but I've been into photography for over 40 years, and studied with a pro in my younger days. Been using digital for the past 15 years, and the hardest thing for me to get used to when switching over from film, was the wide variation in monitors. Using film, we used a color target to make sure images came out the way they were supposed to. Photograph the target under the lighting you were using, develop and print the shot, compare the print to the original chart and use the result to calibrate your darkroom flow. It's actually a lot easier to do using digital, because you can change so many parameters after the fact that would have been impossible to change in the lab. But you need to know the capabilities of your monitor before you can accurately predict what your final prints will look like. I'm sure Warmoth's photographer uses a calibrated monitor to check his work. It's easy to check the accuracy of your monitor, I use a variation of a Gretag McBeth color chart that I developed for my own use. It looks like this:

The numbers at the bottom of the color swatches are the RGB triplets that were used to create them. Across the bottom of the chart is a 26 stage gradient gray scale for checking screen brightness and contrast. If you're interested, I'll email you the jpg of the chart. Have it printed as a 5x7 at a pro-level lab that will turn off their "Auto Color Correction". That way the colors are not changed. After you get the print, bring up the chart on your monitor and compare the two. They should be real close. If not, read your monitor's documentation and get to work!

This is not to say that this method will give you a professionally calibrated result. This method is subjective in that it relies on the users perception of color. But seeing as how the only person you need to please is yourself, it's a pretty good starting point.

To start you off, look at the gray scale now. You should be able to see 26 distinct shades of gray. (The difference between "Y" and "Z" is very small, and indeed I have a hard time seeing it myself sometime.) If the lights wash out, or the darks blend together, you may have found a problem with your monitor settings. Hope this helps.

 

[Punxsutawney]

It is clearly the same guitar, but it is not the same colour and it's not a subtle difference.

I'm wondering how far out of calibration your monitor is. I meant to mention that earlier when you first described Warmoth's picture as "red". It doesn't look red on my monitor at all - it looks brown. But, I have very high resolution (4K) Samsung LCD monitor with LED backlighting and an IPS panel, which is the sort of thing graphic artists and some medical applications use when they want accurate color rendering. CRT monitors are almost always way off, and most LCD monitors have TN panels which are also biased. That would account for the wide disparity between what you saw in the picture and what you got in real life. Warmoth's photographer has posted here on the forum before to describe how he goes about getting the shots he does, as they're very sensitive about how they present their parts for precisely the reason we're having this discussion now. Their whole business model is online - there is no "store" you can go to and buy a body or neck, they're purely just a factory and there are no distributors. So, they spend a disproportionate amount of time and effort making sure their pictures are accurate. It's not just you in Oz, it's the whole world buying based on those pics.

So when I watch a formula 1 race, do you think it's possible the Ferrari is brown in real life? :redflag: :redflag: :redflag: :redflag:

This is not a calibration error.  Dark brown doesn't end up red with calibration errors.  The picture is red (shortened to imply red tinge if anyone's going to get into semantics) on multiple monitors I own.  The difference is extremely dramatic to the actual product.  I just had the same response from a Warmoth saleman, which is interesting, trying to say it's brown on the screen.  It's apparently all my fault!  The picture has a strong red tinge to it!  Respectfully, you wait till now to mention it's not showing up with a red tinge on your screen?  Why didn't you mention this when I first stated the topic? – it's in the very first thread comment from yesterday – I would think it would be the natural first response.  My first thought in your position is "wait, it's not red on my screen".  Why didn't anyone do this for that matter?  That is because there is a striking red tinge to those store pictures.  The actual product is brown and dark.  There will be some subtle differences to real life – no doubt – but we are not talking subtle.

This is a Warmoth forum, with obviously many fan boys and some of you might be Warmoth employees.  Anyone else reading this, you have been forewarned about dealing with this company.  Also, keep in mind the aforementioned non-existent ebony species, quoted to me for $US~900.00 for a neck (dodgy as all hell).  There is also the $US~1100.00 quote for a species that is not known for being the real Ebony Black.  This is a very suspect company, so be careful.  If this thread disappears, or my comments start disappearing, you have confirmation that my experiences are real.  This tele body also feels cheap and nasty to me; it's no wonder why they don't hold value well, when you want to get rid of it.

P.S. The link in the picture is directly from Warmoth; they may change it at some point.

 

[Cagey]

Well, actually, brown does end up red with calibration errors. A little less green in the RGB mix, and there you are. Something that's normally red (like a Ferarri) would look close to normal as it didn't start off as brown so there's little or no green in it.

And as curmudgeonly as I am, I  generally try to temper myself with new members who aren't familiar with my writing style so I don't inadvertently offend. I didn't call you out on the red perception because - and I know this is gonna make everybody laugh - I didn't want to be too adversarial. My father was color blind, and he was permanently pissed about it, so color perception was on the very long list of subjects you avoided with him  :laughing7:

But, as I'm sure you've been reading along here, it appears that if we took a vote on the color of that body, we'd have 1 vote for red and the balance for brown. So, there's a bunch of monitors and eyes saying one thing, and one monitor saying something else. You do the math. Plus, it's Koa. It's supposed to be brown, so no flags raised. A few months back when Warmoth first started offering roasted Swamp Ash, everybody piped up in response to the color change a clear finish made to it because it was not only dramatic, it was a whole new hue.

Finally, who knew how critical the shade was to you? We see a picture that looks normal, you say it's beautiful enough to spend some long dollars on, everybody agrees, and we all sit back waiting on build pictures. Now the color's out in the tiddlywads?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying this isn't important. Lord knows if I ordered a candy apple red finish and I got candy cola instead, I'd be pissed. I'm just taken a bit off guard because I didn't see what you saw on the going-in side.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Well, actually, brown does end up red with calibration errors. A little less green in the RGB mix, and there you are. And as curmudgeonly as I am, I  generally try to temper myself with new members who aren't familiar with my writing style so I don't inadvertently offend. I didn't call you out on the red perception because - and I know this is gonna make everybody laugh - I didn't want to be too adversarial. My father was color blind, and he was permanently pissed about it, so color perception was on the very long list of subjects you avoided with him  :laughing7:

But, as I'm sure you've been reading along here, it appears that if we took a vote on the color of that body, we'd have 1 vote for red and the balance for brown. So, there's a bunch of monitors and eyes saying one thing, and one monitor saying something else. You do the math. Plus, it's Koa. It's supposed to be brown, so no flags raised. A few months back when Warmoth first started offering roasted Swamp Ash, everybody piped up in response to the color change a clear finish made to it because it was not only dramatic, it was a whole new hue.

Finally, who knew how critical the shade was to you? We see a picture that looks normal, you say it's beautiful enough to spend some long dollars on, everybody agrees, and we all sit back waiting on build pictures. Now the color's out in the tiddlywads?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying this isn't important. Lord knows if I ordered a candy apple red finish and I got candy cola instead, I'd be pissed. I'm just taken a bit off guard because I didn't see what you saw on the going-in side.

Who needs to take a poll?  People can decide for themselves and leave it at that.  Lets hope the picture doesn't change, because it's a direct link to Warmoth's website.  I don't think you think it's brown though, because if you did, you would have said so yesterday, in your immediate response and 2nd quote of the thread.  You didn't and you're are the admin of a Warmoth forum too.  I question your bias now.  You're also going to get Warmoth employees contributing as well and they probably won't say they are.

It took people till today to realize it's brown?  Now, all of a sudden the comment is "it's brown, it's brown, it's brown"! WTH?  No, it's not!

 

[Cagey]

I'll admit I'm biased, but that's only because Warmoth has earned it. They have a very long history of high quality products and good customer service that I have an above-average amount of experience with. But, I'm not an employee or a paid representative like a defense lawyer who will go out of my way to avoid the truth in order to escape retribution. When they're wrong, they're wrong, and I'll poke 'em for it as quickly as anybody. Right now, I'm nearly as disappointed as you are because I want you to be happy at the same time I want Warmoth's continuing success. I feel kinda like the kid who's parents are fighting. Can't win, and it's all my fault. Guess I'll just eat worms.

So, what's their suggested resolution? Will they take it back? If not, why not? If so, what's the problem?

 

[BigSteve22]

Just FYI, today is the first time I read you thread. When I saw your comments about red, I immediately thought something was wrong. I live in NY, I don't and never have worked for Warmoth. Cagey is absolutely right, drop the green a little too much in an RGB mix, and brown turns to red. If you think I'm lying to you about monitor calibration: OFW.

 

[Re-Pete]

To add my 2c the Warmoth photos are taken with a consistent studio-like camera/flash setup and look great but it's good to go and find non professional shots with a google image search of guitars made with the same wood as I have done with the intention of buying a goncalo alves neck. I know it will be less colourful/contrasty than with flash lighting.

Also it's a bit late but I wouldn't order a part that came to $1000AUD (including shipping and insurance) to avoid getting stung the extra AU tax/import duties unless I knew exactly what I was getting and must have it. Is it $100usd to get a neck delivered here? Nice to know. I might have to look at my own shipping options to see if I can do better when the time comes.

Lastly you may not have lost much - see what they go for on ebay and maybe you can sell it and get something else. Otherwise you could try your hand at refinishing it with a red tinged transparent finish if it's not too dark.

The guitar body was $US115.55 using UPS worldwide saver.  The neck order, although it's cancelled, was quoted at $US99.88 with USPS Priority Intl.  If you want to find out the costs, just add something to the card and then click the postage options to see the quotes.  I can't remember but I don't think you need an account.  Like you, I didn't intend to go over $AUD1000.00, but that body should have been worth it, or if it looked like the picture it would have been.  If you go over that threshold, you're going to get hit with all sorts of taxes and not just the GST.  There'll be an application tax, a biohazard tax (that one is my favourite!) and an assessment tax for the biohazard tax and more; none of them apply if you stay under the limit.  It's just hilarious!  The courier will hit you up again too for being the broker, but if you want you can avoid that and do it yourself if you're game.  The courier won't tell you that of course.

The red tinged transparent finish sounds a great option, but there's one problem; your use of the word "if".  Unfortunately, it is too dark!  It is very different to the picture!

I have lost and I have lost big; it's not that desirable picture you see.  There's no happy ending.

Another Aussie here & I'm disappointed you didn't like the way the guitar looks and how you felt it was an inferior build. I have built 3 Warmoth guitars & always was mindful of that $AUD1000 limit and the extra $ going over that brought. Once it goes over that you might as well employ a Courier who will also act as Broker, the paperwork is mind boggling. A lot of the charges you mention are Govt charges, the Courier/Broker just usually charges a commission for doing the paperwork to get it out of Customs Bond.

I will use USPS for stuff that will come in under $AUD1000. I think on one occasion I used a Courier/Broker & it was frustrating being on the line to them as they went through the charges, but it would have been mind melting sitting there with a Customs Officer doing the paperwork myself (if they allow you to do that - I'm not sure they do).

The exchange rate is also a bugger because if the exchange rate changes dramatically while the goods are in the air, you could find your 'under $1000' being busted.

As to the appearance....I'm sorry that it isn't a beauty and not like the pic. Some woods do discolour, but judging by your comments about wood species etc. you seem to know what to expect with woods - you seem to have some experience. I have a very nice 'flamed' Koa neck that was finished in Brown Dye and it is a thing of beauty. I bought that off the Showcase as is and it arrived looking just like in the photo....

I can't remember from the previous pages if you mention if this body is finished or not, but if it isn't, maybe get it painted a solid colour to cover up the bland grain appearance? Like others here, I'd love to see a pic of this to compare from the stock pic you posted.

 

[Hendrix]

i have buy some Koa with clear finish from Warmoth , real thing come up very close to their showcase photo.

sorry to hear that you don't like how it look , if you really don't like it , can you sell to me cheaper ? or return it to Warmoth ，so they will put it on Screamin' Deals ?