Stainless fretwire question

[stubhead]

I am going to be putting together a 7-string shortly, and I am strongly considering using stainless steel frets. I already know about the tonal changes and the difficulty in finishing, etc. So far with Warmoth's jumbo nickel silver frets, I have just been rounding over the fret ends on the first build, and only getting to a further polishing after I have to level and crown them the first time, usually after a couple of years (I play other guitars too). The initial installation by Warmoth is level enough for me to live with, I don't use super low action.

Here's the question: I have read about some Warmoth necks coming with perfectly playable S.S. frets, and others coming with frets so rough they grind the strings. Does anyone have any experience with the S.S. fretwires that Warmoth designates SS6105, and SS6115? SS6105 is slightly smaller & rounded, SS6115 is higher and almost triangular.
http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/necks/necks.cfm?fuseaction=fretsize#stainless
I am wondering if the reported difference in playability out of the box is due to differences between these wires. I know I'll have to hemisphere the ends anyway, but I'd like to avoid a total level, crown & polish right away.

 

[jackthehack]

I've gotten a couple of necks with the stainless 6105 frets, damned if I can tell any difference, other than theoretically they will wear slower before needing attention

 

[Alfang]

I also have 4 warmoths with 6105 ss, no problems at all, silky smooth. the 6105 is my favorite size too, not to big, not too small.

 

[dudesweet157]

I got my first with SS 6105, and I was plenty scared it would be too bright/metallic sounding, but it wasn't.  I really couldn't tell any difference in sound, but they are MUCH easier to play on.  Super slick feeling, not rough (don't know where you heard that one).  They feel like nickel steel frets right after you have a full fret dress and polish, except it always feels like that!!!  I can't reccommend them enough; they're more than worth the extra $25, you'll save that in the fret dressings you'll never need.  :laughing7:  The absolute ONLY thing I did to them was round over the fret ends when I rolled the fretboard edges.  They weren't sharp parsay, but there was a definitive edge that didn't feel right,  no worse than a new guitar before it's been broken in.

 

[Alfang]

Hey Dudesweet, I noticed the same sorta sharp feel, I'd like to take a bit of the edge off,( tequilla isn't working) how'd you do yours?

 

[DiMitriR33]

i have ss6115 frets on my strat. frets came perfectly level. i'm a machinist and i checked them against a straight edge. the neck plays awesome right out of the box. i don't know about anyone haveing rough feeling frets. maybe they didn't remove the finnish first. i dunno.
i got the ss6115's because i've heard the wide frets affect tone making a guitar sound more mellow(maybe un-amplified). i like a tall fret. and i've worn out many standard frets before. i'm very satisfied with them but maybe i'll go ss6105 on the next one.
stainless frets are the best 20 dollar i've ever spent on a guitar.

 

[WarmothRules]

i have ss6115 frets on my strat. frets came perfectly level. i'm a machinist and i checked them against a straight edge. the neck plays awesome right out of the box. i don't know about anyone haveing rough feeling frets. maybe they didn't remove the finnish first. i dunno.
i got the ss6115's because i've heard the wide frets affect tone making a guitar sound more mellow(maybe un-amplified). i like a tall fret. and i've worn out many standard frets before. i'm very satisfied with them but maybe i'll go ss6105 on the next one.
stainless frets are the best 20 dollar i've ever spent on a guitar.

Why do you want to go with the ss6105?

 

[DiMitriR33]

just for comparison. i'm sure i can't go wrong either way.

 

[dudesweet157]

Hey Dudesweet, I noticed the same sorta sharp feel, I'd like to take a bit of the edge off,( tequilla isn't working) how'd you do yours?

Actually, it's kinda funny.  I didn't have a diamond file, so I used my pocket diamond whet rock (used for sharpening knives).  It's about 3/4" wide and 3" long.  Worked like a charm, but make sure you tape up the fretboard, otherwise you'll scratch up the fretboard edges and it won't be pretty... *voice of experience*

 

[WarmothRules]

just for comparison. i'm sure i can't go wrong either way.

so are the ss6115 frets awesome? Or is there something weird about them?

 

[dudesweet157]

I'm sure nothing is wrong with the SS6115's.  I think most of the guys around here (myself included) prefer a smaller fretwire and go with the 6105's.

 

[simple]

The SS6115 was the first Stainless Steel wire Warmoth carried. It is V shaped as opposed to a standard rounded top. Didn't the Ibanez Artists or the Yamaha SGs have a V shaped frets decades ago? Anyway, it is very cool feeling to play on. You don't get that railroad tye sort of feel like from the 6100 size, and I could see how that V shape would be handy towards the higher frets; especially if you have fat fingers. I'm not typically drawn to large sized frets but the SS6115 would be something I wouldn't hesitate to order.

 

[stubhead]

I have read from Dan Erlewine & others that the V shape is intended to have more precise intonation, and is often specifically ground in to the frets used by big-time studio guitarists for that reason. It also flat-spots faster - obviously - but big-time studio guitarists just pay some flunkie to refret whenever they want. I, unfortunately, am the only flunkie I know willing to work as cheap as I'm willing to pay....  :sad: I slide up and down the strings a whole lot so I fear that those spiky frets might get really munchie.

 

[Superbeast520]

My experience using SS6115  has been nothing but fantastic,fret bending is effortless,the playability straight out of the box was as perfect as any fret job could hope to be, and the difference in tone compared to nickel (at least to my ears) is very minimal, though I will say, and I've said it before, if your a blues tone snob, get the nickel, so there isn't any of that psycho/voodoo paranoia that goes with such a topic as old school tone.
Obviously if your hell bent on perfecting another guitarist tone you would be best off duplicating as many details as possible to achieve that persons sound, but all in all the playability factor alone has me sold on the stainless frets, as there is no digging into the fret wire from overzelous bending as you sometimes find with softer nickel wire.
As far as SS6115, I was surprised to find it didn't seem as tall as I thought it would, maybe due to the clean smooth feel when bending.
But also to be true to my account of things, over time I did notice there is a slightly brighter tone to the stainless, but only an issue (in my opinion) to those seeking a very specific cleaner tone, which brings to my mind old school blues cats, which I also have an appreciation for.

 

[-CB-]

I have read from Dan Erlewine....

While I admire Dan's expertise, especially on fretwork, some of things he says are outrageous bullshit.... such as setting the adjustable poles of a humbucker to the understring radius of the strings, and combining that with "the / \ / \ / \ slot formation" (zig zag screw head slots) as being the defacto standard on "the perfect setup".  I sometimes wonder where this sort of tripe came from.  Did he have a bad dream?  Did he take a bit of undercooked beef, a bit or rancid potato?  A visit by the ghost of Luthiery past?

 

[jackthehack]

It was the brown acid...

 

[Superbeast520]

I have learned alot from reading Dan's books, which I would recomend to anybody looking to increase their knowledge of the guitar as they are chock full of very usefull tricks and tips as well as a wealth of practical knowledge, but I do admit Dan gets a bit anal and at times strays into weirdly eccentric specifics.......sometimes I get the feeling he must deal with some odd and very demanding customers, because as CB noted some of that stuff is way over the top, and Im pretty sure b.s. would be the word should you ask a Zakk Wylde or Angus Young about slot angle on specific pickups.....hahahahahaahaha....... :laughing7:
 
I don't get too hard on Dan, simply because there were many nights I spent too much time tweaking on my guitar, and looking back at things I now see the parrallels of too much "guitar tweaking" and just plain ole....."TWEAKING"..... I've come to realize, powder or not, too much tweaking is; well;  Too Much!!!!......... :toothy12:

 

[stubhead]

I do try to be careful about causation - there are an awful lot of opinions as to what causes one particular tone change, many many of these opinions seem to be foisted upon us by people who are trying to sell us stuff... For Pete's sakes, there must be at least a dozen companies who know how to make perfectly adequate humbucking & single coil pickups, Ibanez and Philippine-based Kent Armstrong among them. If Ibanez had been making the GAX70 in 1955 and Fender introduced the Telecaster in 1995, would history be different?  :laughing11: Erlewine's explanation of flat frets having less-precise intonation than v-shaped ones is based on observation of what studio musicians really use, not just on his fevered imagination; hence it makes some sense to me. BTW, due to his financial association with Stew-Mac, they are among those who seem awfully happy to sell you some wacky products, I look at their "essential" nut-making tool kit and wonder how I ever got along without spending $179.89 -  a "string-spacing rule?!?" If you're so dumb as to get this wrong using a 29c pencil, you shouldn't be allowed to play with Daddy's tools.....
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Nuts_and_saddles/Essential_Nut_Making_Tool_Kit.html

 

[CD]

These are the same quality tools we supply to busy repair shops! The kit is a great way to develop your skills with a modest investment in the proper tools.

Hahaha. I suppose that would be a modest investment if you were a shop. I don't think the average joe would really need that stuff if he was lets say making a couple nuts for his guitars.

 

[Superbeast520]

I bought the warmoth nut file set (NFS8) and they are fine for the job.