Soloist Body Help!

[jasond.]

I built a new guitar that I'm having problems with. It's a 24 fret soloist flat top with recessed Schaller Floyd. Alder body with a maple/maple neck. The body was way too bright (missing lower mids). I've tried a lot of pups with no luck and I even hear the same thing with the guitar unplugged. I think I just got a bad piece of alder. (My warmoth alder strat rips!)
I'm going to pick a new body wood but I'm not sure what to get. I was thinking of basswood/maple top or mahogany/maple top. I come from a Ibanez and music man back round so I generally gravitate towards basswood bodies. Do you guys have any insight into a solution? Also, do you think the maple/maple neck might be the problem? Do you feel more tonal difference comes from the body wood or the fingerboard wood?
Any help would be very helpful!

 

[pabloman]

Going out on a limb I would have to say your problem is definitely the sum of its parts. The body is a little smaller than a strat so that is one factor. The neck is definitely a factor along with the Floyd. A tweak here and there might help. I would say its either body or neck that need changing. Basswood with a maple cap is magical.

 

[kboman]

A maple/maple necked guitar lacking low mids? Never!

Consider the pickups, then the electronics, then the neck, I suggest in that order. The general consensus (sp?) on the forum is that these parts will have considerably greater impact on the sound of your guitar than the body.

 

[pabloman]

Ya but it is the same unplugged. That takes electronics out of the equation.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Put a Floyd Upgrades brass big block on it first. Best $35 I ever spent on a Floyd equipped guitar.  :icon_thumright:

http://www.floydupgrades.com/catalog/

 

[Telenator]

I'll cast my vote for "moving on." A dud is a dud and no amount of pickup swapping or modification is going to help.

Get off the merry-go-round now and spend the money on something else. You seem to have a good idea of what you're lookiong for. The guitar has offered up it's voice and it's just not what you're looking for.

I have scratch built some guitar that, after 8 months work, sounded kinde of meh. It's a real drag when you have that much time invested! 

 

[crash]

Put a Floyd Upgrades brass big block on it first. Best $35 I ever spent on a Floyd equipped guitar.  :icon_thumright:

http://www.floydupgrades.com/catalog/

Interesting... so would this http://www.floydupgrades.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=77 work on the Wilkinson bridge for my strat that I purchased from Warmoth?

 

[pabloman]

Put some EMG's in it!!

 

[Jusatele]

Sell it to some unsuspecting kid, buck up and buy a Tele like a real man

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Put a Floyd Upgrades brass big block on it first. Best $35 I ever spent on a Floyd equipped guitar.  :icon_thumright:

http://www.floydupgrades.com/catalog/

Interesting... so would this http://www.floydupgrades.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=77 work on the Wilkinson bridge for my strat that I purchased from Warmoth?

Not sure, I don't know if he makes them for Wilkies?

 

[dNA]

The general consensus on the boards here is that the neck has a greater affect on tone than the body.

I personally don't agree. But i think it's nearly impossible to narrow down exactly what the source of the problem is when you're building from scratch. I had a similar problem when I built my tele. I replaced the one-piece maple neck with a warmer tonewood and it was still way too bright and thin sounding. I assumed it was either the body or the bridge, but i was out of money to keep experimenting.
I recently played a Fender tele with a one-piece maple neck and a mahogany body. I was really surprised that it sounded much warmer and fuller than what I expect out of a tele, and certainly FAR nicer than the Warmoth I'd put together. It made me think twice about the idea that the body doesn't have much impact on the tone.


also, FWIW I think people who tell you that electronics and pickups will change everything are setting you up for disappointment. Pickups can only respond to the vibrations that are already there. If you're guitar is lacking in certain tonal qualities, the pickups can't add anything. They can only subtract or augment what's already there. I say you get the guitar sounding nice acoustically, then you worry about what electronics to put in it from there.

 

[Telenator]

Most people believe otherwise but, rosewood boards are actually brighter than maple, and ebony is brighter still. Maple is the softest of the three.

 

[Cagey]

FWIW I think people who tell you that electronics and pickups will change everything are setting you up for disappointment. Pickups can only respond to the vibrations that are already there. If you're guitar is lacking in certain tonal qualities, the pickups can't add anything. They can only subtract or augment what's already there. I say you get the guitar sounding nice acoustically, then you worry about what electronics to put in it from there.

The problem with that approach is that traditional inductive guitar pickups can't hear your guitar like you can. All they see is the movement of the string. So, you can do whatever you want to the guitar to make it sound one way or another acoustically, but until you mic it or install vibration-sensitive pickups, it won't make a great deal of difference in the output signal. Why do you suppose few people use inductive pickups on regular acoustic guitars? Hint: inductive pickups can't feel vibrations. Why do you suppose some people add piezo pickups to electrics? Hint: piezos can feel vibrations.

So, if you want your amp to hear what you hear from an electric, you need to use piezo pickups. Otherwise, use any of a variety of inductive pickups. Or, mix 'n' match. That's always interesting, too.

 

[DustyCat]

FWIW I think people who tell you that electronics and pickups will change everything are setting you up for disappointment. Pickups can only respond to the vibrations that are already there. If you're guitar is lacking in certain tonal qualities, the pickups can't add anything. They can only subtract or augment what's already there. I say you get the guitar sounding nice acoustically, then you worry about what electronics to put in it from there.

The problem with that approach is that traditional inductive guitar pickups can't hear your guitar like you can. All they see is the movement of the string.

Then agan, your guitar can't *honk!* without pickups either!

 

[pabloman]

Comparing an acoustic and electric is apples and oranges and is therefore pointless. Yes a piezo picks up vibrations. Yes an inductive pickup picks up string vibration. It picks up the quality and the characteristic of the string vibration. I don't know why certain people can't grasp that. I don't understand even attempting to argue the contrary.  Otherwise there would be no such thing as "tone woods" in the electric realm.

 

[Cagey]

Comparing an acoustic and electric is apples and oranges and is therefore pointless. Yes a piezo picks up vibrations. Yes an inductive pickup picks up string vibration. It picks up the quality and the characteristic of the string vibration. I don't know why certain people can't grasp that. I don't understand even attempting to argue the contrary.  Otherwise there would be no such thing as "tone woods" in the electric realm.

Yes, it's important that you behave yourself. Yes, there's always somebody watching. I don't understand why some people can't understand that. I don't even understand attempting to argue the contrary. Otherwise, there'd be no such thing as "Santa Claus" in real life.

Sound a little silly? Hint: it's a logical fallacy known as the "false dilemma". That one is obvious, for obvious reasons. But, the argument about tone woods is presented in that form all the time in cases where somebody would like to defend their belief in some aspect of guitar lore. To argue effectively, you have to understand that there are more than two possible reasons for a reality to exist, and the facts may not support the original conclusion drawn at all.

For instance, you're assuming there's such a thing as "tone woods" when it comes to electric guitars. It's ok. Nearly everything you've read on guitar forums and what you've heard from supposed experts would lead you to that point. But, if that were true, why wouldn't building a Strat with a maple topped mahogany body, ebony topped mahogany neck, and dual humbuckers sound like a Les Paul? Hint: it's not the wood.

Think about it. There'll be a test later <grin>

 

[pabloman]

Cagey you can be so damn amusing sometimes. I will only speak of things of which I believe are true. I don't need to regurgetate theories or beliefs I've read some place just to have something to say. Wood contributes to the overall characteristic of an electric guitar. Using your example and taking it a step further actually proves my point. If the wood didn't matter then 2 guitars with the same hardware and electronics but different bodies and woods should sound the same right? 

So are you telling me there's no such thing as Santa? :dontknow:

Also what I am saying is there is an affect on tone. Not a huge one but it is there. This can be just the quality to enhance or detract from a guitars overall character. In the end I'm not looking for a pissing contest I believe what I have seen and heard. I know what works for me. I know what results I get and thats all that really matters.

 

[Cagey]

Cagey you can be so damn amusing sometimes. I will only speak of things of which I believe are true. I don't need to regurgetate theories or beliefs I've read some place just to have something to say. Wood contributes to the overall characteristic of an electric guitar. Using your example and taking it a step further actually proves my point. If the wood didn't matter then 2 guitars with the same hardware and electronics but different bodies and woods should sound the same right? 

So are you telling me there's no such thing as Santa? :dontknow:

Also what I am saying is there is an affect on tone. Not a huge one but it is there. This can be just the quality to enhance or detract from a guitars overall character. In the end I'm not looking for a pissing contest I believe what I have seen and heard. I know what works for me. I know what results I get and thats all that really matters.

What one believes means nothing. Belief does not confer truth. This is a basic problem that many live with every day of their lives without realizing it.

Of course, that doesn't mean that because you believe something that it's not true. For instance, I believe oxygen is essential to life as we know it. I doubt I'd get much argument there from anyone. But, if I were to say I believe drinking bleach would improve my arthritis, well, you'd be obliged to slap some sense into me. Many beliefs are that way. That is to say, they're baseless, or drawn from faulty data or observations.

And of course there's a Santa! There's also an Easter Bunny, honest politicians, a tooth fairy, god, accurate weather forecasters, free health care, limitless money, and a compassionate internal revenue service who shows up on your doorstep to help you. I'm surprised you'd question any of that. You do listen to the mainstream media, don't you? <grin>

I know wood makes a difference. I'm just tired of all the absolutism surrounding it, so I rant. I'm sorry. I don't mean to raise anybody's blood pressure. I just wanna make 'em think.

 

[pabloman]

And he said he was sorry! We need to lock this and make it a sticky ASAP. :icon_biggrin:

 

[Alfang]

Telenator is correct, sometimes things just dont work, make an attempt here and there, try this or that if it doesn't come arround quick, make that the guitar you loan to friends thinking of learning guitar.

I actually have a guitar like that, no matter the neck, pups or bridge, it just sounds like a $500 guitar. And they sound like that to those of us who have built the $1200 Warmoth that sounds like a $3000 custom shop guitar.

It's probably a good sounding axe to most, but we are spoiled here.