so my action is fairly ridiculous...

[rightintheface]

so, i've finished my black/white double f-hole thinline (pics very soon, waiting for my camera off my girl). it's routed for TOM/stop, and i noticed when painting that the neck "angle" is extremely shallow. i'm thinking; 1 degree or so  :-\.
so she's all strung up, truss rod adjusted nearly sraight (got a bit worried as it was rather difficult to turn, didn't wanna damage it so i backed off a little). did the intonation, the TOM is sitting as low as it can physically get (and the inserts are seated flush with the route, so they can't go any further), and still my action at the 12th fret is nearly triple what my other warmoth (recessed tom) has.

i'm thinking of a neck shim, anyone got any good hints/tips? i've already searched through the forum but couldn't find anything concrete. i've never done shimming before. i'm ok at woodworking etc etc but am a little wary about shimming. but then, i'd rather learn to do it myself, i've done everything on this build without help from my luthier. it's all a learning exp i guess....  :tard:

could it also be nut height? its a W installed graphtec, i haven't adjusted it as yet (no nut files), but i checked it with the "hold down the the string in between 2nd/3rd fret" and it seems to be pretty good there. generally i wanna HALVE the action. should i put a shim made of wood, or card or something, maybe a little more than i need, and adjust the bridge as per normal?

oh, and it sounds BITCHING btw  :guitaristgif: :guitaristgif: :guitaristgif:. the rosewood/macassar ebony standard thin is absolutley GORGEOUS. i'm not not sure which i like more, it or my wenge/eb boatneck :icon_scratch:

PICS VERY SOON, MAYBE ON MY IPHONE

 

[PitchShifter]

I got a call from my guitar techs today saying a very similar thing. Makes me wonder why I pay someone to set up a guitar if I'm doomed to do it myself.

I'll be using this info here for some tips. Some of the more experienced guys on the board will be able to chime in and let us know how correct this info is.

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/nckshim.htm

 

[rightintheface]

Thanks for the link! Yeah would love to hear from some "oldies", I know a few people here hav done it.

Um, not really a mark against W, I'm a devoted follower so I'm not really griping... But shouldn't there be a set amount of angle routes into the neck pocket for proper TOM use? Is there any reason for it? I understand that everyone has different preferences etc etc. But, I can't even get close to a decent action. Again, I'm not having a bitch, but I would have thought W would have a set angle to avoid this problem. A 1 degree neck pocket was NEVER gonna work  :dontknow:

 

[tfarny]

Let the truss rod sit for a couple of days and then continue your quest for total straightness - exactly zero relief is really the best, I think. Also get that nut down to the 'zero fret' level. You can't have a great player without working on the nut, and I've never had any warmoth nut that didn't need to come down. You really want the string to just barely 'air kiss' that first fret when holding down behind the second. You might need a magnifying glass for the job if you don't have great eyes. Of course then you probably need a fret level once you really get your nut right. Anyhow you might be really surprised by how much those two things help your action. I thought my bass was going to need a shim for sure, but after the nut and truss rod were fixed, it's just perfect.

As for shimming, Bill Nash recommends just putting a pick in there and be done with it, and he is putting together some of the most highly regarded 'parts guitars' around. Erlewine suggests similar. I've also read somewhere that a little piece of chickenwire makes a good shim because in addition to shimming, it prevents the neck from moving around.

 

[bpmorton777]

he's got a standard tom and stop if I read this correctly. I think warmoth does the neck pocket angle automaticly if it has the tom and stop. probably part of the cnc program. is the pocket angled? if not have it shimmed I guess.

I thought my Warmoth needed shimming till I took it to a tech and he did a fret lvl and said that the truss rod was completely loose and needed to be cranked up to get it straight.

Brian

 

[ocguy106]

depending on what TOM you got as well the saddles definatly need to be filed down as they are way to high out of the box I got the tone pros one and alot of filing need to be done
to get it right

 

[blue313]

It could unfortunately be a bunch of things.  Got any pics?

 

[rightintheface]

yeah tfarny i havent touched the nut yet (hehehe) and it DEF needs work. holding down after the 2nd fret gives me a fair bit more than a baby's breath in between the first and the string. i'll take it to my luthier to do (i dnt have nut files). also, i had to crank the crap outta the truss rod to get it straight  :tard: i got a little scared actually. i was using an 8mm bit, does anyone know the exact inch piece i need? i'm in australia; metric/imperial and all that junk.
pics very soon

 

[rapfohl09]

Pictures of complete guitar? Please Please?  :laughing7:

 

[DangerousR6]

Here's what I'm thinkin' - ***if the truss rod is at the headstock***, you might not have actually tightened it
due to the wrong size allen wrench.  The wrench hole is deceiving... IIRC it should be like a 4 or 5mm.

You prolly put a bigger allen wrench in there; it sorta fit, you turned and turned, got scared and stopped...

...but the truss rod never got tightened because you weren't using the right size allen wrench and didn't
even have it in the (correct) hole.

8mm (the wrench you used) sounds way too big...

Take a flashlight and shine it in there to see the real allen wrench hole.

I don't think so, all mine I used a 5/16 socket, which is fairly close to 8mm. 4 or 5 mm would be way too small...

 

[DangerousR6]

so, i've finished my black/white double f-hole thinline (pics very soon, waiting for my camera off my girl). it's routed for TOM/stop, and i noticed when painting that the neck "angle" is extremely shallow. i'm thinking; 1 degree or so  :-\.
so she's all strung up, truss rod adjusted nearly sraight (got a bit worried as it was rather difficult to turn, didn't wanna damage it so i backed off a little). did the intonation, the TOM is sitting as low as it can physically get (and the inserts are seated flush with the route, so they can't go any further), and still my action at the 12th fret is nearly triple what my other warmoth (recessed tom) has.

i'm thinking of a neck shim, anyone got any good hints/tips? i've already searched through the forum but couldn't find anything concrete. i've never done shimming before. i'm ok at woodworking etc etc but am a little wary about shimming. but then, i'd rather learn to do it myself, i've done everything on this build without help from my luthier. it's all a learning exp i guess....  :tard:

could it also be nut height? its a W installed graphtec, i haven't adjusted it as yet (no nut files), but i checked it with the "hold down the the string in between 2nd/3rd fret" and it seems to be pretty good there. generally i wanna HALVE the action. should i put a shim made of wood, or card or something, maybe a little more than i need, and adjust the bridge as per normal?

oh, and it sounds BITCHING btw  :guitaristgif: :guitaristgif: :guitaristgif:. the rosewood/macassar ebony standard thin is absolutley GORGEOUS. i'm not not sure which i like more, it or my wenge/eb boatneck :icon_scratch:

PICS VERY SOON, MAYBE ON MY IPHONE

It sounds like the neck pocket wasn't cut at a steep enough angle for a Stop/Tom. I know for a carved top the angle is usually quite extreme, like around 3 deg's. It may need to be the same even for flat top bodies...

"We offer two different angles.  The big angle is for use with the Gibson Tune-O-Matic type bridges, the Gotoh 510 bridge and the Schaller 456 bridge (all stud mount).  The small angle is for use with a non-recessed Floyd Rose bridge rout to minimize any need for neck shims."

 

[Superlizard]

Here's what I'm thinkin' - ***if the truss rod is at the headstock***, you might not have actually tightened it
due to the wrong size allen wrench.  The wrench hole is deceiving... IIRC it should be like a 4 or 5mm.

You prolly put a bigger allen wrench in there; it sorta fit, you turned and turned, got scared and stopped...

...but the truss rod never got tightened because you weren't using the right size allen wrench and didn't
even have it in the (correct) hole.

8mm (the wrench you used) sounds way too big...

Take a flashlight and shine it in there to see the real allen wrench hole.

I don't think so, all mine I used a 5/16 socket, which is fairly close to 8mm. 4 or 5 mm would be way too small...

You're prolly right now that I've done some sleuthing... he didn't mention what construction the neck was in this post, so I had to dig
thru his old ones and it turns out it's a Warmoth Pro construction, Warmoth headstock.  And here I'm thinking of my Strat/Vintage Modern
with the Allen Wrench adjust at the headstock.

 

[DangerousR6]

Here's what I'm thinkin' - ***if the truss rod is at the headstock***, you might not have actually tightened it
due to the wrong size allen wrench.  The wrench hole is deceiving... IIRC it should be like a 4 or 5mm.

You prolly put a bigger allen wrench in there; it sorta fit, you turned and turned, got scared and stopped...

...but the truss rod never got tightened because you weren't using the right size allen wrench and didn't
even have it in the (correct) hole.

8mm (the wrench you used) sounds way too big...

Take a flashlight and shine it in there to see the real allen wrench hole.

I don't think so, all mine I used a 5/16 socket, which is fairly close to 8mm. 4 or 5 mm would be way too small...

You're prolly right now that I've done some sleuthing... he didn't mention what construction the neck was in this post, so I had to dig
thru his old ones and it turns out it's a Warmoth Pro construction, Warmoth headstock.  And here I'm thinking of my Strat/Vintage Modern
with the Allen Wrench adjust at the headstock.

Yea, I checked my others that are Vintage Modern and they use the allen key, but the newer Pro's use a hex nut.... :icon_biggrin:

 

[eiopago]

Hi rightintheface,

I used to have a similar problem, not with the recessed bridge but with a truss rod which had reached the end point.
The neck had a little relief, slightly more than I liked but I was too afraid of forcing it.
It felt so stiff that I decided to leave like that and accept the fact.

Do you guys turn the truss rod no matter what as long as you get the neck straight as an arrow?

Marco

 

[stubhead]

A - O.K. Deep breath here....

1) Please don't adjust your truss rod until you have the right size wrench, so you don't ruin the nut. It will be English, not metric. Ask Warmoth, if you don't have/can't figure it out.
2) The truss rod should always be tightened to at least snug, so that the neck wood isn't doing all the work.
3) Chicken wire (?)/door screen shims are designed to keep the neck from shifting side -to-side, not to change the angle.
4) Every tunematic that I've ever heard of theoretically* has a 12" radius. Warmoth's compound radius calculates out to about 19" at the bridge, so the inner saddles have to be filed. You need to find a 19" radius guide, a tech who has one, or figure out a way to get the correct curve into the bridge - even if you get the action lowered, the E strings will be lower than the middle strings. *Read this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zF24JMkjSpQC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=string+radius+guides&source=bl&ots=DuAz7sD-Q1&sig=yebQBkoKSEEwP7YB5y413h8wf2U&hl=en&ei=liwoSq3FKZ3glQfnreTkBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5

5) And just buy Dan Erlewine's book, "Guitar Player Repair Guide." I wish Warmoth required proof-of-this-book-ownership before they'd even sell people wood....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0879309210

6) I prefer harder shim material than cardboard or paper, if not for tone then simply because a soft shim is going to compress and have to be replaced eventually. Old credit cards, the plastic from accessory packaging, etc. etc. etc. I actually save stuff like that....  :icon_scratch:

Here's a link to a free set of radius "gauges", in PDF format - the 20" guide might be the closest, though how accurate you can get with paper/cardboard is iffy.

http://www.pickguardian.com/pickguardian/Images/Pickguardian%20Neck%20Radius%20Gauges.pdf

If I were to do it, I would want to cut the guide so that it fit under the strings, just forward of the bridge. Like this:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Measuring_tools/Understring_Radius_Gauges.html

A pencil tied to a 19" piece of string will draw a 19" radius.... :headbang:

7) "Blowing the nut" is not a kinky sex practice, rather the time-honored tradition of what happens to people when they try to cut nuts without... ummm, reading Erlewine's book? You don't want to "blow the nut" until you have a spare or two on hand.... feeler gauges, nut files, magnifier, etc. etc. Guitar tech? :dontknow:

 

[DocNrock]

I have no idea how to set up a guitar.  After I assemble a Warmoth, I take it to a local luthier who I trust to do the final setup.  He has to file frets, shim here and there, but I always get a highly playable instrument.  The cost varies on the amount of work that needs to be done, but is usually 100 to 200 dollars.  Money well spent, IMHO.

 

[rightintheface]

yeah i got my other W properly setup by my local tech, i'm just seeing how much i can do myself.

little bit of an update: i loosened the neck screws a little bit and slipped a spare guitar pic down into the cavity an voila! decent action!! i was very suprised at how much difference it made. the nut is still a little on the high side, i'll get my tech to look at that, but the truss rod seems ok as the neck is pretty darn straight. thanks for all the help guys, i did find it a little strange that the neck pocket was only angled so very slightly  :icon_scratch: who knows, maybe they punched the wrong thing into the CNCmachine  :dontknow:

either way, it plays and sounds and looks great! we're filming a film clip tomorrow and ill be playing it  :headbang:
oh yeah, if you want pics its in the tele section of the forum. they are only crappy phone pics, can anybody tel me how to upload bigger photos? i don't have a flickr or photobucket page, only a facebook and myspace. myspace pics don't work, do facebook ones? i wanna get better qual pics up!!!