Shellac as a sealer

[m4rk0]

I read some topics on Shellac as a sealer recently, and a salesguy at the local woodcraft even advised me to use it as a grain filler.
I know that it won't make a smooth surface, but that is not what I am after either.

so can somebody give a bit of a step by step on using Shellac? (how many coats, applyt with brush or cloth,  sanding betseen coats, etc)
also, should I use dewaxed or regular.
I am planning to use the amber shellac or a mixture of clear and shellac, so I can skip staining. does this work?

what (wipe on) finish would work well on top of shellac? I want somthing somewhat semi glossy (as opposed to tung and danish oil)

is there an easy method in combination with the above to make the flame pop out in the maple?

 

[-CB-]

Use Zinsser Bullseye Shellac if you're gonna use it.  Its good.  You might want to cut the first coat 50/50 with denatured alcohol, then go back to the shellac as it comes from the can.

Shellac wont really fill grain - level it that is - but it will "seal" the grain and prevent lacquer from sinking in as deeply as it would like.

You haven't said what kind of wood you have, and what you want to end up with.... so its hard to give any better specifics till then.

 

[m4rk0]

thanks CB,

its an ash body, with a flame maple top.
I am looking for a light amber color, just a little glossy.

 

[mayfly]

thanks CB,

its an ash body, with a flame maple top.
I am looking for a light amber color, just a little glossy.

The Zinsser Bullseye should work fine for that.  Get the dewaxed stuff.  The waxed stuff - it's just too waxy  :icon_biggrin:

 

[-CB-]

Zinsser only comes in one flavor, and two colors - clear and amber.  They dont specify the "wax" but from my experience, its largely dewaxed.

Ash... very grainy stuff.  Almost a year ago or so, I got an ash body from Warmoth, that I grain filled with (sit down) SUPERGLUE.  Came out GREAT.  You might wanna try that, and then shellac over it.  I shellac'd over mine, no issues, and its gonna get painted hopefully Monday.  I did a test run on the paint today - came out ok.

Back to yours... ash is very very deeply grained - Grand Canyon grain.  You might want to try some real filler before going with shellac.  The body I mentioned above is one coat of dark brown filler, sanded back, then super glue (which dries clear).  That was sanded smooth, and we're good to go for any (non-dye) finish.

 

[Alfang]

Hey CB, How was the superglue to sand ?

 

[bpmorton777]

Marko,

check out Mayfly's green paisley tele thread.  He used the brush-on stuff but it also comes in a spray can, I think.

Brian

 

[-CB-]

Hey CB, How was the superglue to sand ?

Just like sanding maple.

 

[DangerousR6]

Hey CB, How was the superglue to sand ?

On a small area it's fine, but for larger portions, it suuuuuuuuuxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx...

And Mark O, I have a brand new can of Zinsser Bullseye dewaxed shellac you can have if you want it. I bought it and ended up going another direction..... :icon_biggrin:

 

[-CB-]

The only problem I had with the super glue was the stench... very biting irritating smell.  I just used my finger (in a glove) to wipe it on/in the wood.  Then sanded back when the whole top or back, or side was done.  It took a little while... but not really all that long either.  I let it sit till the next day before sanding.  I few spots, with really deep grain, needed a second application.  Those dark spots on ash... DEEP stuff.  You can maybe get away with just doing those spots if the glue approach for the whole body is not your thing.

Any luck - tomorrow is paint (and picture) day!~

 

[DangerousR6]

The only problem I had with the super glue was the stench... very biting irritating smell.  I just used my finger (in a glove) to wipe it on/in the wood.  Then sanded back when the whole top or back, or side was done.  It took a little while... but not really all that long either.  I let it sit till the next day before sanding.  I few spots, with really deep grain, needed a second application.  Those dark spots on ash... DEEP stuff.  You can maybe get away with just doing those spots if the glue approach for the whole body is not your thing.

Any luck - tomorrow is paint (and picture) day!~

I imagine the ash is a bit easier to do with super glue than mahogany. I think mahogany is to porous for the super glue bit. I did some maple with the super glue and it was a piece of cake....

But mahogany.....Fagetaboutit....

 

[-CB-]

To be honest, I've only used it on swamp-ash.

Now I'm gonna tell where I got the idea.  Not from Frank Ford.  But from Warmoth.  Yah.  When I got that goncalo-alves neck back a while ago, there was a dot that had a big ol globber of "what appeaered to be" super glue smooshed onto the fretboard surface.  Sort of like they wiped it with a finger and sanded it down level.

It hit me like a hot wind from Havana.  It was like Magushi Takanara seeing those two nuns on the railway platform in post WWII Tokyo, struggling to carry huge wooden table top style radio.  One said to the other "Hurry or we'll be late for the train, Sister...".  Magushi-san ran this through his mind over and over.... late for the train, Sister... the train, Sister...the train... WAIT... yes!  The transister!  The rest is, as they say, history.

So when I saw the glue on the neck, giving a nice flat shiny spot next to the dot, it sorta pissed me off.  So I fixed it by creating some artificial grain, then I finished the neck.  But I got thinking... hmm.  That just might work on this new body with grain as deep as the wrinkles on Hillary Clintons "bold etcetera".  So I tried it (not on Hillary you buffoons), but it worked.

And the rest, is history.

 

[m4rk0]

Hey CB, How was the superglue to sand ?

On a small area it's fine, but for larger portions, it suuuuuuuuuxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx...

And Mark O, I have a brand new can of Zinsser Bullseye dewaxed shellac you can have if you want it. I bought it and ended up going another direction..... :icon_biggrin:

ah that's nice
I just got myself a can though. I went to a place called "wood world" in Richardson..lots of nice exotic woods.. if nando was there, he would have to change his pants afterwards  :icon_biggrin:
anyway, got some amber tinted shellac, and 2 pieces of scraps (ash and maple)
so I will experiment a bit today..

 

[m4rk0]

sooo,
I tried out the amber Shellac on a piece of ash and a piece of (birsdeye) maple, and I love the color! exactly what I wanted for this, so no mixing etc..

I also decided I will skip the filling this time. I used different kinds of fillers on some of my projects and decided that I prefer the open grain look.
I have it on a very nice Washburn bass, and I also skipped it on my first ash strat (Well the one I made for a friend) and I kind of prefer that look over a  smooth finish.

so would this work?

2 or more coats of 50/50 shellac/alcohol
a couple of coats of tru oil
and 100% amber shellac for a semi glossy finish?

should I use anything also as top coat?
is there anything I can use under the sealer coat to enhance the flame? I seem to remember someone mentioned boiled linseed oil in an older topic..

 

[Nando Vallart]

if nando was there, he would have to change his pants afterwards  :icon_biggrin:

:laughing7:
Why didn't you took pictures?

Like the semy gloss or satin idea!!! works with natural finish!

 

[DangerousR6]

Check this out.....Especially the last line.... :icon_scratch:


Shellac is a resin secreted by the female lac bug to form a cocoon, on trees in the forests of India and Thailand.[1] It is processed and sold as dry flakes (pictured at right), which are dissolved in denatured alcohol to make liquid shellac, which is used as a brush-on colorant, food glaze[2] and wood finish much like a combination of stain and polyurethane. Shellac functions as a tough all-natural primer, sanding sealer, tannin-blocker, odor-blocker, stain (pigment), and high-gloss varnish. Shellac was also once used in electrical applications as it possesses good insulation qualities and it seals out moisture. It is also often the only historically-appropriate finish for early 20th-century hardwood floors, and wooden wall and ceiling paneling.

From the time it replaced oil and wax finishes in the 1800s, shellac was the dominant wood finish in the western world until it was replaced by nitrocellulose lacquer in the 1920s and 1930s. It remained popular in the Southern United States through the 1950s and 1960s. It continues to be a popular candy glaze for pill shaped sweets such as Skittles.

 

[bpmorton777]

they use beetle shells in food coloring and such all the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmine

Brian

 

[m4rk0]

if nando was there, he would have to change his pants afterwards  :icon_biggrin:

:laughing7:
Why didn't you took pictures?

Like the semy gloss or satin idea!!! works with natural finish!

ahh you know I can't say no to you Nando..

here you go:

with the body and the neck, to see if the colors will look ok together

can't get the color right..it is somewhere between the flash and the non flash pic the top one is maple, the bottom is ash

 

[m4rk0]

Hey Doug,
didn't you use this method for grainfilling???

http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Hardwood/Finishing/Shellac/GrainFillingWithShellac.html

did it work? and did it take a long time?

 

[Nando Vallart]

I was meaning about the wood store, but these are good enough! :icon_biggrin:

Will you get that tone or a darker one, on the body?