Sanding down a fatback

[Belch]

Many many years ago, I bought a fatback neck thinking that I could  reshape the neck  profile using nothing but sandpaper and eventually getting to  where I want it to be.

I got the neck, and was initially pretty iffy about how it felt, but I got used to it, and never did do  anything about it.

Now I'm  thinking about breaking out the ol' sandpaper because although I do appreciate the grip I get from a fatback profile, maybe a bit thinner wouldnt be such a bad thing.

So my question is, since I am starting out with a fatback, does  that mean I have more wood to turn my neck into something a  bit more manageable, or is the truss rod on  a fatback a  little bit closer than if I had ordered a slimmer neck profile?

 

[Toulouse_Tuhles]

To your question the truss rod is under the fret board. 


However it would be remiss if I did not also tell you that recontouring the neck can be iffy.  The reason is the current configuration of the wood is managing any and all stresses within the wood's structure.  When you start to relieve material, the neck may behave by bending in odd directions that are not correctable with the truss rod.
Woodworkers trying to create a straight edge on a beam in a jointer know this!  You remove some meat from the beam on one side curvature on the opposite side changes!
There's no way to predict this so you have to proceed at your own risk.

 

[swarfrat]

My wildly uneducated guess would be that a spoke shave might get you into sanding territory and save you a couple weeks worth of sanding dust. I'm curious too - I got a couple fatbacks that could stand to lose some weight too.

 

[Cagey]

A spokeshave + sandpaper are the right tools, but maintaining a consistent profile over the length of the neck would probably be a real exercise in patience with a low expectation of success. You could easily end up with a piece of scrap as a result of a lotta labor. If it was me, I'd see about selling the neck and putting the proceeds toward one I'd like better.

 

[Belch]

The problem with selling the neck and getting something better is no longer in the cards, as they no longer make better necks. What is available now thanks to CITES and unavailable stock isn't even close to comparable.

 

[Belch]

But yeah okay,, I guess I'll just deal with a fatback. It really isn't that bad now. Just I was thinking of improving it because my fingers arent getting any stronger thanks to age. A fatback once you get used to it is a really good neck profile, but I wouldnt advise it for geriatric players. It's a real hand full.

 

[Cagey]

I go through a lotta necks here, so I can certainly understand not wanting or feeling able to modify/replace a "unicorn". But, fantastic necks are kinda like beautiful girls in that they're a bit more fungible than you might imagine. At the risk of mixing metaphors, there is no "indispensable man" :laughing7: So, to continue mixing things up - you don't quit your job unless/until you have an equal/better replacement. They're out there. Maybe approach the problem a bit differently. Look for a new neck as if you were going to build a new guitar. That way, you still have something work with so patience gets a lot easier to come by. Sooner or later the "perfect" piece of lumber shows up, and you're off to the races once again. Much easier to move the old piece at that point.

 

[dmraco]

I had a LP Jr. I built from a Precision Kit (pre-production) and when it arrived it had the massive baseball bat sized neck.  I thought I would get used to it.  I did not.

I decided to refinish the guitar and have at the neck.  I used power hand sander and some 60 grit.  I progressively worked my way to 200 when I achieved the shape I wanted.  It took some time and made a mess but after some time I achieved the shape I wanted

 

[beltjones]

I've shaped a bunch of necks. There is no doubt that it is the most daunting part of building a guitar from scratch until you've done it once, and then you realize how satisfying it is, and it turns out it's not that difficult.

The main tool you need is not a spoke shave - in fact I strongly recommend you don't use a spoke shave unless you're really skilled at sharpening plane blades and reading wood grain. They're also expensive compared to the correct tool, which is this: https://www.amazon.com/Shinto-HC-TL-SSR200-9-Saw-Rasp/dp/B004DIHDU0

There is a GREAT method for shaping a neck in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj1pKILDykY&t=1067s

You can very easily carve to a V, C, or a D shape with this method, as well as an asymmetrical profile, by simply adjusting the angles of the carves and the angle of the center line. It's not fool proof, but if you have a place to do a little wood working, and you can clamp the neck down (a simple pistol grip hand clamp will work) you can reprofile a neck to the point you can finish the job with a little sand paper.

 

[stratamania]

In a thread a while ago Warmoth mentioned that the truss rod position is not always the same for the different neck profiles. So if you sand one back too far you might end up with not quite expected results.

 

[beltjones]

In a thread a while ago Warmoth mentioned that the truss rod po\sition is not always the same for the different neck profiles. So if you sand one back too far you might end up with not quite expected results.

I'm sure the truss rod would be in a different depth depending on construction type, but surely it's not at a different depth with respect to the fretboard depending on neck profile given the same construction type.

 

[stratamania]

In a thread a while ago Warmoth mentioned that the truss rod po\sition is not always the same for the different neck profiles. So if you sand one back too far you might end up with not quite expected results.

I'm sure the truss rod would be in a different depth depending on construction type, but surely it's not at a different depth with respect to the fretboard depending on neck profile given the same construction type.

As far as I recall the statement was that this was the case from a Warmoth employee... If I can find the thread I will post a link to it but so far I have not spotted it.

 

[rob91bob]

Here is another great video on carving the neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzFnlM4IJ_E


If its a modern neck the truss rod should be directly below the fretboard. The Gotoh truss rod they use for that is a straight double action rod.

 

[beltjones]

Here is another great video on carving the neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzFnlM4IJ_E


If its a modern neck the truss rod should be directly below the fretboard. The Gotoh truss rod they use for that is a straight double action rod.

That's a good one too. Of note is that the stuff relevant to reshaping a Warmoth neck starts at about the 17:30 mark, and at that point all he uses is a $15 Shinto saw rasp and sand paper.

I also agree that on pretty much any Warmoth neck that doesn't have a skunk stripe the truss rod channel should be right under the fretboard. I would also bet that Warmoth (like any top end builder) doesn't over-route the depth of the truss rod channel, because otherwise it can tend to vibrate and rattle.

Unless you're trying to make your fatback smaller than a Wizard there is very little chance of exposing the truss rod. If you're methodical, measure frequently, have the right tools, and watch a bunch of good instructionals I don't see why it wouldn't turn out great. 

 

[stratamania]

I don't see anywhere in the thread which construction type the OP has.

Of course, a neck can be reshaped. Just mentioning something to be aware of and it in all likelihood invalidates any warranty. Though in the OPs case this probably does not apply as it is an older neck.

 

[War_in_D]

I've shaped a bunch of necks. There is no doubt that it is the most daunting part of building a guitar from scratch until you've done it once, and then you realize how satisfying it is, and it turns out it's not that difficult.

The main tool you need is not a spoke shave - in fact I strongly recommend you don't use a spoke shave unless you're really skilled at sharpening plane blades and reading wood grain. They're also expensive compared to the correct tool, which is this: https://www.amazon.com/Shinto-HC-TL-SSR200-9-Saw-Rasp/dp/B004DIHDU0

There is a GREAT method for shaping a neck in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj1pKILDykY&t=1067s

You can very easily carve to a V, C, or a D shape with this method, as well as an asymmetrical profile, by simply adjusting the angles of the carves and the angle of the center line. It's not fool proof, but if you have a place to do a little wood working, and you can clamp the neck down (a simple pistol grip hand clamp will work) you can reprofile a neck to the point you can finish the job with a little sand paper.

Sorry, nothing specific to add regarding carving a neck profile as I have never done one... but wanted to comment on the video.  Absolutely LOVE Ben's videos, although it took me a while to acclimate to the head tattoos.  Just looking at him, you'd think to yourself "he's not the kind of guy I would want to meet in a dark alley" but he's just another guitar geek that gets really excited about the craft and the instrument.  LOL  If you're not familiar with him, check out his videos on his latest guitar project.. You can find it under "The 90 hour guitar build" or "The Complication" on Youtube.  Just watching his videos, I always gathered that he was talented but the level of work going into the build for "The Complication" guitar has given me a whole new respect for his level of craftsmanship. 

 

[swarfrat]

This thread got me interested. And I see that the fatback is actually similar in dimensions to the boatneck, which feels much better to me and might be an easier shape to approximate retroactively. Hmmmm

 

[adamndirtyape]

Not intending to revive the thread, but just wanted to add my experience for the record.

I ordered a 1 3/4 fatback in roasted maple from Warmoth but couldn’t get used to it - even after almost a year of playing it as-is. I need the wide neck because I have large pads, but the depth was too much. I decided to take it down to .90” at the first and taper it to 1” at the 12th. I approached this pretty freely knowing that the neck was easy to replicate and replace via Warmoth if I really messed it up.

I started by drilling depth holes at each fret from 1 to 10. I wouldn’t recommend this unless you have some sophisticated equipment. I just had a hand drill and a caliper and I couldn’t get as accurate as would be desirable.

After the depth holes were drilled, I started with 120 grit down the centerline. This was a little too much and I would recommend 130 or finer. I switched to 220 rather early and did a shoe-shine motion perpendicular to the neck (and the grain). It was slow going, but I didn’t trust myself with anything else. I was using strips of sandpaper about 2-3 inches, but I would recommend going narrower - maybe around 1 inch. I inadvertently made a dip around the second fret because of where the edge of the sandpaper sat when I first laid it down. I must have been putting too much initial pressure into it. I worked with the head closest to me and sanding away from myself. I found that working from the side can make it uneven.

I continued this shoe-shine motion until the depth holes were almost gone. I then switched to sanding up and down with the grain adding pressure with the base of my thumbs mainly to the sides. This helped round-out the shoulders.

I finished by holding the guitar in my lap and literally playing it as I sanded the last little bit (I left an old pair of strings on the whole time). This let me get everything right where it felt best for my hand.

Although the roasted maple is supposedly unfinished, the sanding left it a much lighter color, but I think that will fade in time. I also accidentally scuffed-up the edges of the fretboard a bit. I don’t care about cosmetics, but probably should have taped it off. The headstock transition turned-out very nice without much additional effort. There is still a very slight dip at the second fret, but not noticeable while playing and I’m afraid evening it out will take too much wood.

This did affect the tone a little. The fatback is amazing in how it resonates and I think I lost a bit of that.

I think I ended-up with something like a roundback because I went a little deeper than the original .90 that I intended. I’m also pretty sure the profile is a bit offset. I took down the treble shoulder a bit more as I was sanding/playing at the end.

The neck is far from perfect, but it’s mine.