Roland GK Internal Install?

[Unrepresented]

Anyone have any experience with installing the GK Internal Kit in an instrument -- preferably Warmoth? Would be used with the GR55 interface to create non-native sounds. The external kit is cumbersome looking, curious if there's any first hand experience here.

Example of an internal installation and use of the GR55:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGcy5zeqUHU

 

[Updown]

Anyone have any experience with installing the GK Internal Kit in an instrument -- preferably Warmoth?

Yep ..... Me    :icon_thumright:

Here are some links to 2 of my Warmoth Strat's with GK-3 internal kits.

My 1st at doing this ....
Can see full build process..... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=16436.0
GK-3 Install…… http://s864.photobucket.com/albums/ab202/Zummooz/GK-3%20Install/
Rest of build….. http://s864.photobucket.com/albums/ab202/Zummooz/The%20Cigar/
Finished Build .... http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=16573.0

My 2nd one ...
Build job here … http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17451.0
          &        ... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17452.0
Finish build here ... http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17680.0

:redflag:  For ALL the GREAT info on GR-55 and VG-99 etc, go here ... http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php

* NOTE *
The square hole that is needed for the GK-3 13pin connection.
CAN be avoided !!
Meaning you DON'T need to go that way.
I have a friend that has designed a 13 pin locking ROUND connecter.
Meaning you just have to drill a round hole, than to hack a square hole (like I did on my builds)
He is doing them with tails attached, so you can connect to GK-3 board.
More on this can be seen here ...  http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8888.msg63873#new
Or can contact him direct, though there.
Or PM me for his details. As he has on going other designs etc.

You CAN order a strat with both a rear and top route, if you wanted to use a pickguard, plus a little more room may-be.

Lots of reading and pic's for you, so I hope this help .....  :icon_biggrin:

Couple of others around here have done a GK-3 internal install, but I can't remember who.  :doh:

 

[rapfohl09]

What is that thing? Some kind of Midi pickup?

 

[Updown]

What is that thing? Some kind of Midi pickup?

Save me typing heaps  :icon_biggrin:  ....  here ya go .... http://www.roland.com/V-Guitar/about.html

 

[Unrepresented]

Awesome links. Thanks Updown.

 

[Updown]

Awesome links. Thanks Updown.

No problem  :icon_thumright:
Give me a yell if ya need any other info.

What is that thing? Some kind of Midi pickup?

If ya looking for a Midi pickup.  :dontknow:
This is what you want  :icon_thumright:  ...... http://www.fishman.com/products/view/tripleplay-wireless-guitar-controller

I did a post here on that ..... http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=21411.msg321516#msg321516

Turn your guitar into a keyboard  :guitarplayer2:  .... hours of fun fun fun.

 

[dmraco]

I just dug  up this thread.  My son is interested in these.  Do both guitar outputs plug onto the roland pedal system?? 
I am really interested in how it all works together with the traditional amp set up.

Thanks. 

 

[Prometheus]

Both the divided pickup (Roland GK-3) and the regular guitar pickups are available. But it can be a little complex. With the external kit, you get a very short phono cable that plugs into the guitar jack, and into the clamp-on unit. With the internal kit, this wiring is inside. Either way, the (required) 13-pin cable carries the 6 signals from the divided pickup, as well as the signal from the regular pickups, to the outboard processor/synthesizer. The kit also has a 3-position pickup selector switch, which can enable just the regular pickup signal, just the divided pickup signal, or both.

And from there it gets a little more complex. I'm not trying to discourage you here. It's just that the system has a good deal of complexity, because it's designed to be very flexible, and those two necessarily go together. On the synthesizer, you can further select how you want the signal (whichever one you've activated with the switch I mentioned). The divided pickup signal is typically processed through the synthesizer. Want your strat to sound like an LP? It can do that. Or a piano? It can do that too. And more. And you can switch to, or blend with, your regular pickups. All this sort of thing is stored into editable presets, but there are controls so that you have a bit of real-time control as well.

As for how it impacts your regular guitar-amp setup, well, that varies. For example, there is a GuitarOut jack on the GR-55. You'd think this would be just the same as plugging into the guitar directly. But there are issues with that, namely that you'll get the signal that has been routed through the onboard electronics, which includes an active buffer. And there's no (stock) way to just use that jack as a "thru" signal. So if you want to run your wah pedal, which depends upon passive interaction with your pickups, you're not gonna get the sound you expect. On the other hand, you can get wah effects from the synthesizer. There are a whole bunch of threads related to "Guitar Out" in the VGuitar forums. It's a great forum, and there you'll find a lot more info about this, as well as workarounds that people have come up with. There are other synthesizers you could use too, but I haven't used them, so you're on your own there. Regardless, much of it will sound better through some sort of FRFR amp-speaker setup, because a regular guitar amp-cab-speaker aren't optimal for the synthesized sounds. 

But you can have the synthesizer send your regular pickups thru various effects, like delay, chorus, reverb, etc. And amp sims. So it's a modeller (divided pickup) and an effects unit (either signal) too. So some people would say that it gives you a whole lot more than you regular guitar-amp setup. And others would say that you can't get the same quality of sounds you can from a traditional rig.

It's your decision to make. Lots of guitar shops and music stores carry them. I suggest you go in and try one out. Ask first for which of the staff knows the unit (I mean really how to use it, not just where it is or how to turn it on). Then plug in a guitar like yours, and start calling up presets (patches). Look for under User patches for .... I think it's called... umm... "Normal PU L1". Something like that - sorry, I've over-written mine. Anyway, it'll give you a "thru-signal" sound, so you can judge. Unless somebody's messed with it.

 

[dmraco]

If the 13 pin carried both the divided signal as well as the stock, what is the need for the 1/4 jack on UpDowns guitar?  Is he keeping the separate to allow for a "pure"signal??

Your description was very helpful.  Thank you.  That is kinda what I expected.  The two outputs is what is throwing me.

 

[swarfrat]

It's not strictly necessary, but messing with a 13 pin cable, converter box and cabling when you just want to plug in an crank into a good ol monophonic Marshall stack is a major drag. Besides, people do funky thinks with that line. Some folks use it for the magnetic signal. Some folks use it for a seventh string (though no commercial boxes support 7 strings - some folks are doing pitch to midi in software).

Or you can plug your quarter inch jack into your guitar amp, run the same signal down pin 7, and if you're using piezos instead of the Roland magnetic pickups, you now have all six piezos plus a copy of the magnetics for recording/processing. The possibilites aren't quite endless, but  the number of permutations is kinda mind boggling.

 

[dmraco]

So they can be run completely independent of each other.  You can run the pin, 1/4, or both.  Thx.

 

[swarfrat]

I haven't looked at the Roland schematic, but on the Graphtech Hexpander it's buffered, as I would expect it to be on the Rolands. Your 1/4" jack isn't buffered unless you have actives or an onboard preamp.

 

[drewfx]

I may have to try to do one of these internal installs on a build.

I just got one of these brand spanking new bad boys last week:

http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=1319

I got it mostly for the synth sounds, but it does modeled guitar stuff too.

 

[Prometheus]

Yes, as I mentioned, the Roland GK-3 regular guitar output is buffered. By an NJM2068 op amp (a particularly good choice). I'd considered myself bypassing that, and putting a clone of that buffer into a breakout box that'd pass through to the synthesizer, but which then would also have a jack for the "raw" magnetic pickup signal out too. That'd leave the regular cable to the amp running along the floor.

But there's just no easy way around that buffer, so if you want to run simultaneously the divided pickups/synth, and a raw output to a regular amp, then you're stuck with running both the 13-pin and the coax out of your guitar. A little fussy, a little busy, and a little goofy lookin'. Just sayin'. Or you could just use the 13-pin, live with the fact that there's a buffer in there, and not tell anybody. I doubt anyone would notice. Remember, any powered effects pedal is effectively a buffer too. And then you could use the synth's effects before sending to the amp.

The GP-10 looks to be a cool unit. Not as full-featured as the GR-55, let alone the VG-99. But it does have a bit more in the guitar and amp and cab modelling. Although fewer controls, and a smaller display. I think it's geared towards the player who doesn't want to endlessly edit patches, who wants modelling, and effects, and just wants to stomp to switch 'em. There's a new section of the VGuitar forums for the GP-10. And for those who are forum members there, there's a group buy going on that's just now starting to ship.

Final note - piezo pickups will give the synth unit a different signal than the GK-3, which is actually six subminiature humbuckers. Which means that the patches will probably have to be edited (EQ'd) to get closer to their intended sounds.