Refret Question

[davegardner0]

I'm working on my first "real" refret...installing some Jescar SS 57110 frets into a Japanese Strat neck. I've installed frets into a new build before (with a bound fretboard), and I've taken frets out and then put them back in (long story) but never a proper refret on a finished neck before. Also my previous experience is with non-SS frets.

So far I've removed the old frets without any difficulty, and sanded the fretboard with a radius block and then fine grit papers so it's flat, smooth, etc. and ready for the new frets.

So I have a question: After installing the frets and cutting them close to the sides of the neck, how do you guys sand or file down the fret ends to be flush with the sides of the neck without damaging the finish on the sides of the fretboard? Or do I need to cut the tangs before installing the frets so that they already don't stick out?

Related question: what tool are you guys using to flush cut stainless steel frets? I have the Stew-Mac fret cutter but it's REALLY hard to cut through these frets with it and I'm afraid I'm going to damage my tool.

 

[bagman67]

Dunno if this helps, but when I moved from the San Francisco Bay Area to Las Vegas a few years back, I got a bad case of fret sprout on several guitars and I dealt with it by just running a smallish bastard file along the neck parallel to the centerline of the neck and perpendicular to the fret ends.  I was cautious and so I think I did not mar any finishes, but honestly the finished necks I did this to were fairly well worn to begin with so I may not have noticed if I screwed anything up.

 

[AirCap]

Fret beveling file. StewMac or Luthiers Mercantile have them. Also, Squeebay if you're cheap. Trust me, you'll also want a small 3 cornered file with safed edges to radius them when you're done for the finest feel.

 

[davegardner0]

Hmmm my impression was that the fret beveling file is for adding the bevel to the top of the frets (which I know how to do and understand how it works). Is that tool also used for sanding back the part of the tang that sticks out?

I do have the triangle file and I think I'm good with dressing the ends...it's just the tang that I'm not sure about...

 

[stratamania]

You use a file.

A good video starting around 5 m 26s illustrates this.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/drYT7Ot6g8A?t=5m26s[/youtube]

For cutting Stainless Steel look for some tools by Knipex. I mentioned this to Cagey a while back and he is a user now.

 

[bagman67]

I think you meant 5:23.  What this guy is doing is exactly what I meant by "use a bastard file."  You can mask up to the bottom of the fretslots to minimize the likelihood of damage to the finish.

 

[stratamania]

I think you meant 5:23.  What this guy is doing is exactly what I meant by "use a bonehead file."  You can mask up to the bottom of the fretslots to minimize the likelihood of damage to the finish.

I just noticed that myself and edited the typo. Thanks for pointing it out.

I think the other thing worth mentioning is as you get the metal flush with the finish you can feel it and that is of course when you stop.

 

[bagman67]

Wow, I just realized the profanity filter translates "b@stard" to "bonehead," which is not cool, since a b@stard file is a legitimate name for this tool.

 

[stratamania]

I was wondering if bonehead files were a US name for a file I had not heard. I have been saved a google search

 

[davegardner0]

I think you meant 5:23.  What this guy is doing is exactly what I meant by "use a bonehead file."  You can mask up to the bottom of the fretslots to minimize the likelihood of damage to the finish.

Wow I see what you mean now...that video really helped! So the file just rides on the fret tips, and you stop just exactly when it would start to touch the finish? Seems like a precise and risky operation! But I definitely see how this would work well.
Thanks!!

 

[Cagey]

The profanity substitution table could probably use some editing. Maybe if I get bored later...

Anyway, the best way I've found to knock the frets ends back level with the sides of the neck is to use a planer blade sharpener, such as these from DiaSharp...

They call them "stones", but they're actually milled steel that's been diamond coated, and they come in about 4 or 5 grits. They ain't cheap, but they work great and last forever, and they just laugh at stainless fretwire. Be sure to shop around - prices are all over the place on those things from reasonable to ridiculous.

With mine, I epoxy a drawer pull on the backside to make it easier to handle them...

I start with a "coarse", which is about a 220 grit, move up to a 320, and finish with a 600. If you have those, you can probably forgo the beveling file unless you don't trust your eyes to get the right angle for beveling when it comes time to do that.

As was mentioned, you can feel it when the metal is gone and you're starting touch surface or finish. It's gonna leave marks, but that's what polishing papers are for. You can get rid of the scratches and move on from there.

 

[AirCap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNLJabydryo

^^^ Fret beveling file vid from StewMac ^^^

 

[stratamania]

A beveling file will be needed later after dealing with protruding fret ends which was the question asked.

 

[Cagey]

I can't believe he runs that beveling file without masking off the frets. He even mentions the danger of sliding off the edge and wrecking your freshly installed frets. Been there, done that, invented many new curses.

For the 2-3 minutes it takes, a couple layers of masking tape on the frets can save a lotta heartache.

 

[AirCap]

I don't see HOW he can "wreck the frets".... I have been using a fret beveling file since the 80's and never so much as scratched the top of the frets with that tool.

 

[davegardner0]

I start with a "coarse", which is about a 220 grit, move up to a 320, and finish with a 600. If you have those, you can probably forgo the beveling file unless you don't trust your eyes to get the right angle for beveling when it comes time to do that.

As was mentioned, you can feel it when the metal is gone and you're starting touch surface or finish. It's gonna leave marks, but that's what polishing papers are for. You can get rid of the scratches and move on from there.

I've added the bevel to the sides of the frets freehand with a file before and it worked pretty well. I do think I'll mask off the side of the fretboard though.

And that's a really good point about polishing papers, I hadn't thought of that. I can always touch up the surface if I ding it a little while filing the fret tangs. Good thinking!

And those plane blade sharpeners look awesome! I'm not sure I'll be doing this enough to justify the cost, but if I do they seem to be the obvious answer.

 

[Cagey]

I don't see HOW he can "wreck the frets".... I have been using a fret beveling file since the 80's and never so much as scratched the top of the frets with that tool.

Well, "wreck" is probably too strong a word. But, I've slipped off the edge due to the side pressure needed to actually file the frets, and as the file scrapes across the fret tops it puts serious scratches in them that then need to be removed. I do almost nothing but stainless, and it doesn't file as easily as nickel-silver does, so you kinda gotta put some effort into the file to get it to cut unless you wanna be at it for hours.

But, it's a good tool. Not trying to take anything away from it. Just advising caution, especially when it's so easy to do.

 

[AirCap]

Pro tip: mount the guitar sideways in your guitar bench vise so the edge of the fingerboard is up. When using your beveling file, keep the majority of pressure close to the file pushing down, very little pressure to hold it to the fret surface. More control that way.

 

[davegardner0]

For cutting Stainless Steel look for some tools by Knipex. I mentioned this to Cagey a while back and he is a user now.

Which model by Knipex are you guys using? Something like this?
https://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=art_detail&isMobile=&parentID=1367&groupID=1470&artID=2228

I have a few guitars that ideally I'd like to refret, so I might want to invest in some good cutters.

 

[Cagey]

No, he's talking about the Knipex model 71 12 200...

Wonderful tool. Highly recommended. You can cut stainless all day long even with your wrong hand. I think the biting surfaces must be Cobalt or something, as they don't seem to wear, and the over-leveraged jaws mean it doesn't take much pressure to operate them.

Only problem is they don't cut flush, so you're still left with getting the ends cut once the frets are installed. For that, I've had a love/hate relationship with these. When used carefully, they work like a champ. Problem is, it's very easy to cut slightly off 90° so the top die impacts the fretboard, leaving a slight dent that there's no easy way to get rid of. I've since found that holding them carefully to keep both sides of die equidistant from the 'board, and also having the 'board taped up to act as a cushion will keep that from happening. I'll continue to use them, but the search is still on for something better.

I did find these for flush end cutting...

They're advertised as good for stainless, and have the same sort of design as the Knipex tools, but the sole user comment on Amazon's sale page says he likes 'em better for fret removal pliers than flush cutters, and has some better flush cutters. Don't know what those would be, but I think I'm going to have to one of these.